Seeking Information Re: Kentucky Rifle

Hi All,

Asking for input, information, knowledge...Any and all comments are welcome. I have a Flintlock Kentucky Rifle...Overall length 61". Barrel Length 46". Approx. .36 caliber. Full octagon barrel. Outside dimension at muzzle = 25/32" (.790 inches). At breach approx. 28/32" (.844 inches). Rifled barrel, 6 lands (.360 inch) and 6 grooves (.388 inch). Lock plate marked "Sharpe" (British ?). Full Stock curly maple. Striped wood cleaning rod ? On left cheek, eight pointed star. "GMH" on top of barrel.

For pictures, click on link below to look at picture album: http://s350.photobucket.com/albums/q420/rmarch7/

Thank You! Hope to find out some interesting stories...

Ray

What do you know about it?

Where did you get it?

Have you pulled the barrel out of the stock to read what is on the bottom flat? Have you removed the lock to find out what is written on the inside of the lockplate?

That is where you are likely to find more information about the gun. It appears to be a parts gun made in the last 50 years, looking at the lockplate, the trigger guard, and the patchbox. The double throated hammer suggests its made up of parts, rather from a single lock maker. The initials on the top of the barrel probably are those of the maker, or owner, or both.( the same person)

Made in West Virginia , probably late 1820's. Probably Hampshire county. It's been "doctored on" in the past with the replacement of it's steel screws in the butt plate and patch box with brass screws which are totally incorrect. The lock is an English export lock. It may have been converted from flint to percussion, then back to flint again. Some of the parts on the flintlock don't look quite right.
Don't do anything at all to it. it's a very nice example of a late flint W. VA. rifle.

WEST VIRGINIA....Thats My State...Wild Wonderful
West Virginia....AND iTHINKS IT A SWEET GUN...
Please don't balance it on a step ladder....

I know Mr. Brooks knows a hell of allot more about rifles than I do!

I will state however, that if this rifle is from the 1820's, it never got used!

I would agree with others that the rifle has been put together in more recent times.

Nice looking rifle I really enjoyed the pics :thumbsup:

Mule Brain said:

I know Mr. Brooks knows a hell of allot more about rifles than I do!

I will state however, that if this rifle is from the 1820's, it never got used!

I would agree with others that the rifle has been put together in more recent times.

Nice looking rifle I really enjoyed the pics :thumbsup:

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This rifle was more than likely "cleaned up" and refinished when the brass screws were put in it.. I don't believe it has been restocked. There are a few oddities about it. The sideplate and trigger guard aren't what you'd expect to see on a Hampshire gun, but stranger things have happened....
I'm far from an expert on old KY rifles, but like Paul V , I have stayed in a Holiday Inn express on occasion..... :rotf:

We reach these kinds of impasses because even the best descriptions, and a few pictures just don't give us enough information to do more than guess. I believe Mike is guessing just as I was.

Someone is going to have to take this gun apart, and examine these parts personally, to determine age, any other relevant markings, etc. If the gun was made in the 1820s, as Mike speculates, the barrel will be made of IRON, not steel. That will be the giveaway clue. But even if the barrel is iron, that does not mean it has not been re-used, or restocked later. Mike thinks it might have been converted to percussion, and then back to flint. That would also be easier to see in person. The variety of parts is what we both spotted from the pictures here. I know some of those parts are not consistent with them being made in the 1st quarter of the 19th century. So does Mike.

Removing the furniture to examine each piece will let an examiner determine what is original, what has been modified, and what is new.

BTW: There is nothing wrong with a parts gun. Old Gunsmiths put together guns from parts they had from broken guns all the time. I have seen several, taken a couple apart myself, and my brother owns a wonderful example of a parts gun that has a barrel dating from the early 1800s, or late 1700s, while the rest of the gun appears to be an 1870s or 1880s rebuild. Only one letter appears anywhere on the rifle, and that is on the backside of the buttplate. We believe the gun comes from Eastern Ohio, or Western Pennsylvania, but beyond those opinions based on similarities to stock design, No one consulted over more than 25 years has been able to tell us more. Aging the barrel actually was the easy part, as this percussion gun has dovetails for keys that don't line up with the current stock, ther is NO evidence left ofthe original touch hole indicating that the barrel was cut off at the rear and re-threaded for a home made patent breech, and the grinding marks on the bottom three " flats" of the barrel narrow its age down considerably. Finally, the barrel is IRON, and not steel.

Mike is entitled to his opinion, and I am to mine. And No, Mike, I have not stayed in a Holiday Inn Express. That would be your kind of place! I am a Super 8-kind of guy! :rotf: :blah: :thumbsup:

And No, Mike, I have not stayed in a Holiday Inn Express. That would be your kind of place! I am a Super 8-kind of guy!

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Well then, obviously my opinion will carry much more weight..... :haha:

Sure looks like a Harpers Ferry lock to me..I
have handled plenty of them..just my opinion based
on no talent what so ever...

It does have some attributes of a military lock, but the "Sharpe" name marked on the lockplate muddies the water a little. I haven't found a reference for it yet.

Russ T Frizzen said:

It does have some attributes of a military lock, but the "Sharpe" name marked on the lockplate muddies the water a little. I haven't found a reference for it yet.

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Sharpe is an English maker of the late flint period. I've seen several pistols by Sharpe and own a pair of locks for a double flint gun by Sharpe.

I have a similar flintlock that's come down through the family w/the name "panabackar" on the barrel. 44 caliber, octagonal barrel, Curley Maple. I have the bullet mold (I made 1/2 dozen w/ it), powder horn, and old deerskin shoulder bag (though there's not alot left of it). Can anyone help ID it?

Pictures?

Thanks.

I took pictures, but can't figure out how to include them. I feel like an idiot, but then, the system isn't very clear on this. I'm happy to send some pics though. :hmm:

Roy Chandler and James Whisker's book "Behold, the Longrifle" has photos of a fullstock percussion rifle by Samuel Pennabacker, 1794-1876, Lancaster, PA. You can borrow this book through an interlibrary loan free from you local library. Whisker's book "Gunsmiths of Lancaster Co, Pennsylvania" gives histories on eight men with names Panabaker, Pannebecker and Pennebecker. One of them probably made your rifle. This book has patchbox photos of rifles by D. Pannabecker and S. Pannabacker. You should be able to get this through interlibrary loan also. Names are spelled many different ways, don't be concerned with the difference in spelling.

Thanks for that! There are 2 other names on the gun. J. Tarratt is on the lock, along with an etched pheasant, and G.W. Claspill is top of the barrel. Panabakar is on the octagonal side of the barrel. My guess is Claspill made the gun from barrel by Panabakar and lock by Tarratt. I'm curious as to where these guys lived/worked and when. If anyone knows about them, I'd appreciate you sharing what you know. Many thanks. I'm tryin on the pics, but it ain't happenin'

I don't find Tarratt and Claspill in my references. The lock is probably imported from England and the name Tarratt may be a hardware store that sold it. I restored a Jacob Wigle rifle (Westmoreland Co, PA) that had the original flintlock replaced with a percussion lock with an engraved pheasant on it and the stamped name Spang & Wallace. They were a hardware store in Philadelphia (see "The Pennsylvania-Kentucky Rifle" by Henry J. Kaufmann, p.348). This same book has a lot on Pannabeckers, including a photo (plate 40A), and says that the name is more famous for its barrels than its guns. "The name is frequently stamped in block letters on one of the side facets or the bottom of the gun barrels." A Pittsburgh ad from 1838 by gunsmith W.H. Brown listed Pannabecker barrels: "For Sale, 50 doz. Rifle Barrels, at the reduced price of $30.00 per dozen."

There are tutorials on this site on how to post photos. They start out .

Oops- I didn't look far enough. Got it. From "Ohio Gunsmiths and Allied Tradesmen, Vol 1", by Donald A. Hutslar, Fairfield County, p.211:
"Claspill, George W. (1802) Lancaster. 1826 Claspill is among the group of gunsmiths working "about 1826" that are mentioned in "Recollections of David Foster" in Scott's history (1876).

1850 George W. Claspill, 48, gunsmith, born in Virginia. Wife, Myris (?), 46, Born in Pennsylvania. Resident in Lancaster.

1850 Manufacturers' Index: Claspill had $200 invested in his business and employed one hand at $25 per month. For the year ending 1 June 1850, he purchased 20 barrels at $35, 20 gunlocks at $30, and mountings, maple, and coal at $45. He made 22 guns valued at $308, other items and repairs valued at $530.

1853 Directory entry as Gunsmith.

1876 Scott (1876) noted, while compiling his county history, that Claspill had discontinued business.

Hey, that's great stuff Herb! Thank-you for taking the time to look.

What does Lancaster mean after his birth date (1802)-where he was born? Any idea? Also, is "Scott's history" a history of Ohio? And then the 1850 info telling where they were born & stating they were/are residents of Lancaster. Is that Lancaster Ohio, or PA? You may not know, but if you do........

If I can get my pics up, I'll share a pic of old Billy Smith who won the flintlock from his 1st cousin in a turkey shoot in Illinois, in 1838, when he was 18. The pic was taken ca 1890's.

That's why I'm trying to analyze where the gun came from...old Billy came onto the gun in Southern Illinois in 1838, but had moved from eastern Kentucky (Bourbon Co.) in 1830 with lots of family@ age 10. I just wonder who bought the gun and when. It's a compulsion of mine.

Thanks again Herb.

KJ