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Login Name Post: help!!! stuck jag        (Topic#219130)
pbrockland 
32 Cal.
Posts: 18
03-16-08 10:51 PM - Post#546054    


Help!!!

After a day at the range I was cleaning my flintlock and the somehow the cleaning jag broke off from the cleaning rod (the threads are in the rod, the jag is in the barrel) The jag has a water soaked patch on it. Does any one have any ideas on how to get this thing out?

Thanks in advance, I'm starting to panic

 
runnball 
54 Cal.
Posts: 1647
runnball
03-16-08 11:08 PM - Post#546058    

    In response to pbrockland

Pull your barrel out of the stock if it is not out already. Remove your vent liner and you can see the patch or jag use a small pick to move it forward slightly and take an air line and blow it out. The tip of the air nozzle needs to be sealed off against the barrel flat. You can use a piece of old bicycle inner tube for this and the nozzle can't be one of the "Safe" OSHA approved things. You may also screw in a Zerk fitting and push it out with a grease gun.Be carefull where the muzzle is pointed if you use air because it will come out with some force. Not enough to penetrate pine boards but enough to raise a heck of a knot on a noggin.

 
pbrockland 
32 Cal.
Posts: 18
03-16-08 11:26 PM - Post#546063    

    In response to runnball

Thanks for the response,

I can not get the vent liner out, I have tried, it seems that the builder wanted it to stay put. What is a Zerk fitting?


 
MercerLake 
40 Cal.
Posts: 355
03-17-08 01:35 AM - Post#546089    

    In response to pbrockland

I believe that you said you had a water soaked patch on the jag. So the immediate worry is "RUST", I'd pour/spray a teaspoon or so of WD40 down the barrel to help lube and displace the water.
Next to the "liner" if it does not have a slot for a screwdriver then you would have to drill it and use an easy-out to remove it. A left hand twist drill bit will likely remove the liner as you drill it, most gunsmiths have left-handed bits.
Some folks have good luck using a CO2 Ball-discharger with an adaptor needle fitting to pressurize the barrel and blow the jag & patch out.Mine never seems to do it for me.
The "Zerk" fitting is a common grease fitting that must be screwed into a tapped hole in the liner. This allows a grease gun to gradually force the mess out of the barrel. Of course you then have a thoroughly greased barrel to clean.
Truly an excercise in patience versus frustration. Most everyone has done it at least once or knows someone.


 
La Longue Carabine 
40 Cal.
Posts: 309
La Longue Carabine
03-17-08 07:33 AM - Post#546131    

    In response to MercerLake

Put a little bit of powder in through the touch hole and shoot it out. Not going to hurt anything. The patch surrounds the jag and the jag never touches the barrel. With about 10 grains or so of powder you will just get a "pffftttt" and the jag will come out.

Edited by La Longue Carabine on 03-17-08 07:34 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
djack 
32 Cal.
Posts: 8
03-17-08 07:42 AM - Post#546132    

    In response to La Longue Carabine

You could try pouring oil down to soak the patch and reduce friction. Then use a small fishing hook with 50lbs test line to snag the jag/cloth and pull it out.

 
pbrockland 
32 Cal.
Posts: 18
03-17-08 08:24 AM - Post#546146    

    In response to djack

Thanks for all the suggestions everyone, I'll be trying again this morning.

 
Cpt Ordnance 
40 Cal.
Posts: 402
Cpt Ordnance
03-17-08 08:26 AM - Post#546148    

    In response to pbrockland

Is there something I'm missing? Why aren't we suggesting that the breech plug be unscrewed? Is seems too simple a problem.

 
runnball 
54 Cal.
Posts: 1647
runnball
03-17-08 09:16 AM - Post#546163    

    In response to Cpt Ordnance

Dooh!

 
scalper 
54 Cal.
Posts: 1668
scalper
03-17-08 09:39 AM - Post#546177    

    In response to Cpt Ordnance

NAAAAAAH! What ever he does ..He should not try to unbreach the barrel!
powder behind the Jag and shoot it out is the best solution....


 
Scattershot 
40 Cal.
Posts: 449
03-17-08 10:24 AM - Post#546199    

    In response to scalper

Dunno about you guys, but unbreeching a gun is NOT a simple solution. As others have said, just shoot it out. Just a few granules of powder is all it takes.

 
runnball 
54 Cal.
Posts: 1647
runnball
03-17-08 10:37 AM - Post#546206    

    In response to Scattershot

He has a wet patch and it has been soaked with WD 40 as previously suggested it is going to be problematic to get powder to light off. If it is an octagon barrel clamp it in a good vise padded of with leather and that breech plug will turn right out of there. If it is a round barrel you are going to need a barrel wrench. Use good leather not a split or a piece of suede or the barrel will cut through and then you'll have a marked up barrel.

 
gmww 
70 Cal.
Posts: 4692
gmww
03-17-08 10:40 AM - Post#546209    

    In response to runnball

How about a C02 discharger? They have an attatchment for a flinter.

 
Pletch 
50 Cal.
Posts: 1274
03-17-08 10:44 AM - Post#546211    

    In response to scalper

  • scalper Said:
NAAAAAAH! What ever he does ..He should not try to unbreach the barrel!
powder behind the Jag and shoot it out is the best solution....




Not being able to see the gun, removing the breech could be a problem as you say. In some cases the liner and the breech may cut into each other. If the liner was installed too far back, it may lock in the breech plug. You'd have to have the gun in hand to make that decision. Good custom makers have solutions when they put the gun together; here we don't know quite what we have.

Regards,
Pletch


 
pbrockland 
32 Cal.
Posts: 18
03-17-08 12:05 PM - Post#546241    

    In response to Pletch

This is really getting frustrating.

I tried to use an air compressor to blow the patch and jag out, no luck. Air blew around the obstruction.

I tried to remove the breach, no luck. The vent liner is threaded into the breach (patent breach).

I even tried the fish hook and line but there is not enough patch material to catch.

By the way, I am afraid that with the soaking wet patch and all the oil I have used I will no be able to get powder to go off in the breach area.

My next step will be to find a machine shop that can remove the vent liner and then try and find a Zerk fitting with the proper thread and pitch(whatever that might be).

Any more thoughts?
I appreciate all of your insight and comments

Edited by pbrockland on 03-17-08 12:07 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
paulvallandigham 
Passed On
Posts: 17538
paulvallandigham
03-17-08 12:08 PM - Post#546242    

    In response to Pletch

He may have to drill out the liner, to remove it with the easy-out reverse drill bits. Once done, he can see if the liner is seated in the threads of the plug and prevents the breechplug from being removed unless the liner is removed. With the liner gone, you can dig out any spoiled powder in the barrel, dry it, and then put some powder in it, then a new liner, and fire the gun to shoot the jag out. You can fire the gun without using the flintlock by holding a flame against the barrel, and blowing gently into the vent hole. Just be sure to open a hole in the powder charge, no matter how small, with a vent pick to let this happen. Blow at an angle that leaves your body and face away from the gases and smoke that will come out the vent hole, too!

 
runnball 
54 Cal.
Posts: 1647
runnball
03-17-08 12:11 PM - Post#546244    

    In response to pbrockland

Who built the gun and what caliber is it?

 
runnball 
54 Cal.
Posts: 1647
runnball
03-17-08 12:23 PM - Post#546251    

    In response to paulvallandigham

You could also place a pinch of powder on top of the vent liner with the flat turned up vertical and light it off with a charcoal lighter and you won't have to get your face close to the breech to blow gently in it. A piece of fireworks fuse could possibly be inserted into the vent hole depending what size the vent hole is to light off the powder.

 
Birddog6 
Cannon
Posts: 6234
03-17-08 01:40 PM - Post#546276    

    In response to pbrockland

Seen this happen many times & every time it was because of an all brass jag. When ya do get it out........ throw it away & all of those jags with Brass threaded shafts. Buy the ones with the steel shafts threaded into the jag & they will not break off.
When I get a new jag I remove the shaft, wash it out with electrical cleaner, then put red locktite on it & put it back into the jag. it will not back out that way.



 
Worker 11811 
40 Cal.
Posts: 105
03-17-08 02:33 PM - Post#546301    

    In response to pbrockland

Is there any bit of the threaded part left on the tail end of the jag? Even 1 or 2 threads?

It MIGHT be possible to take a small jeweler's screwdriver and coax the broken off piece of the jag from the threaded end of the ramrod then carefully insert it down the barrel and screw it onto that last bit of the threads on the jag.

Remove the barrel from the gun, wrap it up in some cloth padding and clamp it into a vice. Carefully pull on the rod, making sure that the rod stays absolutely parallel to the bore. Apply slowly increasing amounts of force as you pull.

Like I said, all it takes is one or two threads worth to get a bite on the jag and pull it out.

Cross yourself and say a prayer first. It might not help but it sure can't hurt!

 
oldarmy 
50 Cal.
Posts: 1411
oldarmy
03-17-08 03:27 PM - Post#546318    

    In response to Worker 11811

I would use an easy out and take the vent liner out.Then put in some powder. Put the new vent liner in place. LEAVING THE screwdriver slot in it.
Prime the pan and shoot it out.
This is why I leave the screwdriver slot in the vent liner and lube the threads on all my flintlocks.
You don't need to take it out often, but it sure makes situations like this much eaiser to resolve.
Good luck. Let us know how you made out.

 
La Longue Carabine 
40 Cal.
Posts: 309
La Longue Carabine
03-17-08 03:52 PM - Post#546331    

    In response to oldarmy

Set the gun muzzle down in the corner overnight. It there is any oil left in the breach it will drain forward and be absorbed by the patch. It it is wd-40 it is dry already. Then go ahead and trickle powder in through the vent whole and shoot it out before you bugger everything up and kick yourself for messing up your gun. Ask me how I know!

 
Stormrider51 
36 Cal.
Posts: 70
03-17-08 06:31 PM - Post#546372    

    In response to La Longue Carabine

I'm voting for the trickle some powder in and shoot the jag out. I've had dozens of rifles come into my shop with the same type of problem and that technique has never failed me. I just go out back and shoot the thing into the ground.

Storm

 
Blizzard of 93 
Cannon
Posts: 7237
03-17-08 07:46 PM - Post#546402    

    In response to pbrockland

drill the liner hole next size up and do the trickle powder in trick. it will come out and not much powder is required, 10 grs or so.

 
pbrockland 
32 Cal.
Posts: 18
03-17-08 08:33 PM - Post#546423    

    In response to Blizzard of 93

I got it out!

Took the gun to a machine shop and had the vent removed. Used a grease gun to pump out the obstruction. Thanks for all the advice guys,
I am truly relieved to have that out of the barrel.

Now, does anyone have any suggestions on getting the grease out of the barrel?

Thanks again.


 
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