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Green River Rifle Works

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spud

40 Cal.
Joined
Jan 17, 2004
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I have a .40cal grrw ohio valley pattern flinter in my collection since the early 80's how common is this rifle today? it is by far the best handling and most accurate BP rifle I have ever owned. SPUD
 
I don't know how many were made, but they are out of business for many years now. The old Green River barrels were famous for their accuracy and me and several others I know still treasure theirs as the most accurate rifles they still own. Mine is a .45 PA rifle I made with components and a GR barrel.
 
It could be just that Rich,I bought the rifle from Anson Morgan :bow: at the kenockee trading post in Avoca,Mi.in the 80,s
 
My first Rifle I built was with a 13/16" .40 cal. 42" Green River Barrel. By far the best shooting I ever did was with that gun. Sadly, I mistreated the barrel, and have neglected it for 10 years. I believe it had a twist rate of 1 in 56" Wish I could turn back the clock. ...George F.
 
I have a TC Cherokee that I built from a kit and installed a Green River .40 cal. barrel. This was probably about 1986-87. The company was on it's last leg at the time, and I had a great deal of difficulty obtaining the barrel. Would this have been the same Green River Rifle Works? The rifle shoots well and was probably my best shooter until I got my Southern Mountain rifle with a .38 cal Ed Rayl barrel. Now the .38 is my most accurate rifle.
8905c
 
spud this just for every one intrest there is a green
river rifle works here in australia south australia to be more corect it is run by a man called allan vaisham he builds very nice guns i have handeled and shot some of the guns he has made he dose exelant work for what he sells them for.take a look at his site.Green River Rifle Works Australia


bernie :grin:
 
Yes, that's right! I've known Alan for a number of years from when I lived in Adelaide. Green River Rifle Works was originally in Roosevelt, Utah & was bought out by another Australian named Mal Wade who took the company, & one of the U.S. employees (Neil Fields), back to Australia. I believe Alan Vaisham worked for Mal at that time as a gunmaker & later bought the GRRW(Aust) name, etc. from him & went out on his own, that must be about 20 years ago. Alan has a very good reputation amongst the Australian BP shooters & makes some great guns, I particularly remember a fine little matchlock he was shooting at the MLAIC World Champs. in Adelaide in 2000.
 
I talked with Neill Fields today about three Hawkens I am building and showed him a printout of this thread. He said the GRRW went out of business in 1981-82. He was working there then. The name was sold to this firm is Australia and Neill went there and worked about one year. He speaks highly of Allan Vaisham.

But the rifling machinery did not go there. Rich Hoch of Montrose, CO bought if first as I remember. Then Neill thought it went to Las Vegas. I think it next went to Michigan. Track of the Wolf was selling custom made barrels, not named Green River, but I think their catalog said it was this tooling. This was maybe 10 - 12 years ago. I bought one barrel and found a loose spot in the bore and sent it back. I don't know where the machinery is now.

I have a Green River .40 caliber barrel I found about a year ago and made into a Hawken squirrel rifle, and I think the twist is 1-48. That's what Neill remembers it to be. He said they are nearer a .39 caliber rather than a true .40. Both lands and grooves were cut, I think he said, and mine is a little on the tight side. Shoots great, even .380 and .390 balls.
 
Herb...Neil has got it right as he should know...Doesn't mention that GRRW spend several years in Grand Junction, Colorado at two different locations...Spent some enjoyable hours with the guys (Zane Briggs) at the GJ shop...

I watched barrels being made by two different methods...First was bore it, cut the grooves, then reindex the same cutter and cut the tops of the lands until the bore cleaned up...Second was to bore it, then I believe a hard bore size tool piece was drawn thru the bore several times and ironed out the boring chatter, then the grooves were cut...May have cut the grooves before the bore smoothing...This is why you could have a high or low spot in the barrel using the second method even though the borre looked great...They normally used round barrel stock and then planed it centered around the bore after rifling to the octagon shape, but also use ready made octagon stock in conventional sizes, called these their standard barrels...

The first was the premo style and you can see the difference by looking thru the barrel...Tops of the lands will have slight scraper marks parallel with the lands as the second method will have marks if any parallel with the bore...

The Best...The Lizard...
 
Herb...Barrels could be ordered in any twist you wanted depending on the use...My 40's were alawys 1 in 48 I believe...Bore diameters varied some do to how much cleanup was require by the top land cutting method...Could go from below 40 to way above, but they seemed to have a cut off at about .020 are real close or just a shape larger than .40 as I use a .395 round ball..Believe Zane made 6 or 8 40's in a batch and I picked out the two I wanted..

Have several GRRW barrels left...Two are 54's but a .530 swaged round ball will not go down the bore, so they are probaly closer to 52 cal...Must have not taken alot to clean up the bores!

The Best...The Lizard...
 
Lizard- Thanks for all that good info. I remembered the GRRW machinery going to Montrose, Neill didn't say that. I was wrong, but I was close, Grand Junction is nearby.

I have a Stylus 3 Streamlight that I look into bores with. I filed the rotary turn-switch down to .398 diameter so it will drop into a .40 bore. It won't go into my .40 Green River. It does go into 3 Green Mountain bores loosely, maybe a little snugger into a Douglas, and a little closer fit yet into a Rice barrel.

Just checked my new GRRW .58 1-60 bore, it is very smooth and has very fine striations on both the lands and the grooves, if I look hard. And my .54 GRRW bore I'm building now is the same. I have not slugged the bore, so I don't know its exact diameter. Another .54 GRRW Hawken I built up is also very smooth, and uses a .530 ball. I'll have to study them closer to see how the marks go.
 
Herb...Only problems I ever had with Green River barrels was the very sharp edges on the lands and the poor crowning jobs...Both are pretty easy to fix with a few home grown tools...

If you shorten one of their barrels, suggest you take off the amount you need to at the breech end...This will retain the natural choke at the muzzle that was formed during the rifling process...I know it is a hassel to rethread the breech end, but why cut off a "good thing" so to speak...You can put the choke back in by top lapping from the breech end or add it to a barrel with no choke, again with a few tools and some hand work...Good article in "Muzzle Loading Shooting and Winning with the Champions" by Don Davis on barrel lapping and reasons why...

The interior barrel marks I talked about are very evident in the cut lands barrels, with the swaged land top barrels being very smooth, almost mirror[url] smooth...In[/url] any case will be a challange to see if the barrel is breeched...All Green Rivers will be seven lands and grooves, the best in my opinion will have lands narrower than the grooves, don't know if you can get them too narrow, prefer them 1/2 the groove width, but those are far between...

The Best...The Lizard...
 
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The .54 Green River barrel I am building into a Kit Carson Hawken now is .530. Top of a land to the bottom of the opposite groove mikes .542 with my calipers. I have a .54 Orion barrel that shoots good groups and is has striations across the lands. I never did lap it, nor need to.
 
Herb..Yea, .530 is about right for a 54 Cal Green River....Your rifling also appears to have some depth to it, enough for round ball shooting which it was always intended for...
The marks accross the lands on your other shooter are probably from the reaming of the bore to size and uniformity after rough drilling...
If it shoots for you that's all that is necessary...
What the lapping does other then putting a choke into it if you want to, is make the bore uniform from breech to muzzle...Takes out the highs and lows and some rough if present...After lapping, the next shots out of the rifle up to thousands will be the same...No need to brake in a lapped barrel...
If you get some patch cutting, look at the crown pretty close, ofter times the cutting takes place at the loading stage of the whole works...I use anykind of lube except spit!... :winking: ...The Lizard...
 
I don't use any kind of lube including spit. In about 8 percent relative humidity, shooting maybe up to 40 shots at a session, I got very tired of soaking patches. So I never use spit. And up at Bridger before I knew better, I was using some grease lube. About four or five shots is all that I could shoot because of fouling. Stuck a ball and pulled the end off my ramrod trying to pull the ball. The CO2 discharger wouldn't work. Had to go home and pull the breech plug to get that ball out. Cured me of grease lubes.

I finally hit on using the Murphy Oil Soap, rubbing alcohol and hydrogen peroxide cleaning solution as a patch lube. I use half MOS and half 91% isopropyl alcohol, wet the pre cut patches and keep them in a cap tin. Have used this for thousands of rounds in maybe 50 rifles over the last 10 years. It works for me.
 
Have used the Murhy soap, alchol, and peroxide setup for many years too...Works good...Also like Hoppies #9 Black powder solv....Often use straight alchol for cleaning up....Yea, I only use a water base water pump grease when I'm in the hunting mode...First loaded shot and then the four/five in the loading block...Other solvents/lubes just dry out in the block over a few days....The Lizard...
 
I need to make a loading block and then I'd have to use a different lube. Water pump grease, eh? I can work with my cap tin on a rabbit hunt with frequent follow up shots, or at another rabbit, but it is slow. I need to use a loading block.
 
Herb....Email me your address and I'll send you a tin of the grease to try...It's kind if waxy compared to automotive type stuff... :winking: ...The Lizard...
 
Lizard- I can't E-mail you, you have no address shown in your profile. I don't know how to contact you without it. Look at my profile, my E-mail address is there. Thanks, I'd like to try it.
 

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