12 ga. and round ball?

I have a Thompson Center New Englander 12ga with the screw in chokes. Can this be shot as a smoothbore with round balls? If so, what choke would you use and what ball/powder configeration would be best

I would use an Open Cylinder choke tube in the gun if I were shooting round ball. Probably a .715 RB will be a good choice, with .015" thick prelubed patching. You really do need to measure the inside bore dimension of the gun to get the exact measurement in thousandths of an inch, so that you can choose a proper ball and patch combination.

Start with 70 grains of Goex FFg powder, and work up from there. Work for an accurate load at 50 yds. Beyond that the ball is going to shed velocity and accuracy. Some smoothbores can be made to shoot good groups out to 75 yds. Rarely will an unrifled barrel shoot well beyond that. However, there are deer killed every year with guys shooting shotguns with round ball or slugs, well beyond 100 yds. There are also a lot of deer crippled and maimed at those distances, too. Have no doubt that that heavy round ball will kill at many times that range. You would not want to be hit by an ounce and an eight of lead ball at any distance!

Have you considered using one of the rifle screw in choke tubes that extend the barrel several inches but shoot rifled slugs like conicals? If the barrel is strong enough to support those screw in chokes, that might be something to try. Of course, you would then be shooting a " rifle " and not a smoothbore, if that would make a difference under your state regulations.

When you are talking about measuring the inside demisions of the barrel, are you talking about down the barrel or the deminsions of the opening at the choke tube?

You need the bore measurement down in the barrel. The chokes have different constrictions. Paul is suggesting you get the bore size to determine ball size. I would try your skeet choke constriction as well as cyl.to see how the ball performs.

The only thing you need is an open choke, like a cylinder bore choke tube and enough patching to make the ball/batch combo fairly tight. I have shot probably 100 rounds of ball from a 12 gauge. What I settled on was a .690 round ball since that mould was easily obtainable from Lee, and two 20 thousandth's patches to make that fairly tight patch/ball combo. Most 12 gauges measure .729 inner bore diameter. I had a friend that used to shoot .54 caliber ball from his 12 gauge with two wads around the ball made from an old blanket. He could actually hit stuff with it too !! Granted, that was waaay too small of a ball for a 12 gauge, but with a .687, or .690, or .700, or a .715 ball, any of these will be suitable in a 12 gauge so long as you get the patching right to get the fit to avoid blow by. Also, it wouldn't hurt to put an over powder wad between the powder and patched ball to keep all the gasses and velocity you need behind that ball for that big heavy ball to get down range. That much weight drops VERY RAPIDLY down range, so putting the card behind the patched ball to capture the inertia of ignition will help. With 100 grains of 2F, and the card and patched ball combo, my 12 gauge .690 ball would still drop 4 feet at 75 yards !! Play with patching and loads, and you'll be just fine shooting round ball from your gun.
Ohio Rusty

As I'm in the proccess of having a 12 ga smoothy brewed up :grin: I'm interested in any info pertaining to roundballs. Have you tried felt wads in place of the over the powder wads? Just wondering if the softer felt wads would be better for accuracy or is this something I shouldn't be worried about?

I don't have a cylinder tube for my gun, but the .715 balls will not go thru the full, modified, or improved choke tubes. I am thinking .690 .

I always used .690 rd balls in my double barrel .12 ga with cyl. bores. 90-100 grs of Pyrodex RS, and over powder wad, half a lubed cushion wad and ticking patched rd balls was an accurate load in mine.

Swampy , I use felt liner out of an old boot seems to do the trick.I like to limit my shots to 50 yards,the closer the better in my book.
what length barrel are you lookin'at?

It's gonna be made with the Colerain 32" "D" profile barrel which should be just about perfect for me to load and handle without any problem.

Was just wondering if I should see about getting some felt and a cutter to make wads or not.

I have a NW trade gun in 12 ga (I know, not really HC). I settled on .690 RB with pillow ticking patch over 70 grains of 2Fg in this gun. I also have not worked up a good shot load.

Bob

I measured the barrel, and it measures.726. I have three choke tubes for it, cyl measures .727, mod. measures .715 and the full measures .694. So I guess a .015 patch along with the 690 ball would be a good place to start along with using the cyl choke tube.

Don't use that .690 ball with any of the tigher choke tubes. That full choke will let the ball pass, but not the patching. In fact, you probably won't be able to seat the ball through that full choke tube. Use the Cylinder bore, or the Improved Cylinder choke tube at the most when shooting round ball. I don't know how thick the walls of the barrels are on that shotgun, but you need to take care before using any kind of choke when shooting a solid ball so that the barrel is not damaged. Good shooting.

I will definately be using the cyl bore.

My favorite load for this gun is 80 gr. 2fg, one wonder wad, .715 ball, one wonder wad on top. I shoot this with a WinChoke cylinder (zero constriction) tube install. I like the WinChoke because they have no notch in the rim, easier to load through.

Not that I agree, but someone posted elsewhere that:

"TC doesn't recommend round ball loads out of their smoothbores. They have told me that they were made for shot only.

I worked at a summer camp in central New Hampshire and my off time found me frequently at the Fox Ridge Shop in Rochester. One of the guys showed me a gun returned for stock repair. The stock was cracked where the patent breech hook was recessed above the wrist area of the stock. They stated that was caused by shooting round ball loads in the gun."

I guess the possibility is just something to be aware of. :hmm:

Did they think that a 500 gr. round ball recoiled more than 500 grs. of shot? I haven't found that to be true.

Is there a rifled choke tube available for that 12 ga.?

rifled choke tube

Note that this is labeled as "Sabot Only" and is not intended for round balls. T/C would not approve of the use of this choke in their guns.

Did they think that a 500 gr. round ball recoiled more than 500 grs. of shot? I haven't found that to be true.

Click to expand...

No, but a tight fitting PRB would generate higher bore pressures.

Think about what you are asking a " Rifled Choke Tube to do. In a rifled barrel, the rifling spins the bullet as soon as it moves in the barrel. In a Rifled Choke Tube, the bullet is traveling at a fast speed when it first enters the choke tube. Its like a race car going at 200 mph and entering a sharp curve. Except the car is made of soft lead, and doesn't have rubber tires to help it make the turn.

The use of a soft " sabot " allows the much smaller in diameter slug to enter the rifled choke tube at speed, with the sabot taking the torque of the twist of the rifling, while allowing the energy to be transferred to the bullet more slowly. If the sabot spins faster than the bullet, the friction created grabs the bullet as the sabot expands, acting like a car brake grabbing a brake drum. The bullet reaches the rate of twist rotation very quick. while the sabot takes all the torgue stresses. You can not achieve that when using a PRB or lead slug of bore diameter.

Now, some of those stresses are transferred to the barrel. If the barrel is thin walled, and round, it is not going to take the torque very long before troubles begin to show. However, if the barrel is thicker, as is seen in some shotgun barrels where the gauge chosen, say 20 gauge, is put in a barrel with the diameter of a 12 gauge shotgun, leaving much more metal to absorb torque. If the rate of twist is slowed, on a rifled choke tube, and the tube is made the same thick diameter of the harrel, with the rifled portion in an extension beyond the normal muzzle, it would be possible to create a rifled choke tube that would handle rifled slugs, or PRB. A 12 gauge bore on a 10 ga. barrel is now being done. Whether you can get extended choke tubes that are rifled for that particular gun I do not know. And I doubt that much work has been done to find the proper ROT for such a rifled tube to handle PRB, or conicals. If someone knows more about this, I would surely be interested in hearing about it.