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Login Name Post: Mortimer Shotgun by Pedersoli        (Topic#188285)
Rusty Old Gunns 
36 Cal.
Posts: 79
Rusty Old Gunns
12-18-05 07:38 PM - Post#208326    


I just picked up a used Pedersoli Mortimer Shotgun from Track (Its still on their page way down at the bottom of the "Flintlock Smooth bores") The gun itself is in the mail.

I have a few smooth bores already (20's) but the only 12 bore flinter I have is my Bess, and all I’ve fired out of her has been .713 Balls and buck and ball.

Any of you fellas have any experience with the Pedersoli Mortimer? I need to work up a load. Any suggested shot loads for starters?

I know it isn't as PC as my other guns, but I figure the turkey will never know the difference.

Oh yeah... And Merry Christmas to all of you.


 
ffffg 
40 Cal.
Posts: 446
12-18-05 10:40 PM - Post#208398    

    In response to Rusty Old Gunns

have track of the wolf send you a bag of 12 ga nitro cards, fiber wads, overshot cards, and id get a bag of knickle plated 6s from balaistic products.. a load to start with would be 80 grains 2f goex,, nitro card, glob tc lube(bore butter), fiber wad,, ram this home well, then put in 90 grains equivelent number 6 shot, over shot card, place card firm on shot dont pack it for best patterns.. always measur the length of the rod sticking out of your barrell against the fingers on your hand example 3 1/2 fingers with proper loads.. if it isnot right pull the load. dont shoot it out as something could be seroiusly wrong.. then tweek load using turkey target and see what works best.. for tighter paterns use larger shot, harder shot, less powder, more shot, pack the powder not the shot.. i have a 12 gauge mortimer also and had it jug choked years ago, and it shoots well with this.. it is very tough to do this with the pedersoli as the rib is solderd on in an oven, and most jug chokes are done on a lath, thus the rib needs to be removed, it was quite a project but it turned out ok.. turkeys will require a good pattern with a cylinder bore,, as it gets colder or warmer out the patterns will change, so if your a finatic id find best pattern at each 10-20 degrees of hunting temperatures..or keep your shooting range short,, dave

 
Rusty Old Gunns 
36 Cal.
Posts: 79
Rusty Old Gunns
12-19-05 11:24 AM - Post#208516    

    In response to ffffg

Dave,

Thanks a lot for the info. I have worked up my shot loads for my TVM fowler and my double flintlock 20 gauge, and have made black powder cartridges for an old 12 gauge 1885 coach gun, so muzzle loading scatter guns are not new to me.

What I needed was the insight you gave on the Mortimor in particular. Funny, I was strongly considering jug choking the gun.

Thanks for letting me know how difficult it may be. A lot of gunsmiths hate working with re-soldering ribs.

Thanks for the info, my friend.




 
Duane 
45 Cal.
Posts: 904
12-19-05 12:38 PM - Post#208541    

    In response to ffffg

I agree with ffffg. Get it jug choked. I had mine done and it went from so-so patterns to excellent ones. I use 80 gr of 2F, 2 over powder card wads, a cussion wad 1 1/4 oz of copper plated #6 shot and a over shot card. Wonder wads also work ok, 2 over the powder and 1 over the shot. Loads alot faster. Gene Reems did the jug choke. 309-526-8466. The only problem I've had with mine was too small a hole to the powder chamber to the patent breech.



 
TANSTAAFL 
Cannon
Posts: 6528
12-19-05 01:48 PM - Post#208567    

    In response to Rusty Old Gunns

Yes, I have, and the experience was totally bad, as in "BAD"

The only good thing to come of it was I got my money back.

 
Rusty Old Gunns 
36 Cal.
Posts: 79
Rusty Old Gunns
12-19-05 05:57 PM - Post#208662    

    In response to Duane

Duane,

Thanks, buddy. I will call Gene after the holidays.

In the past, I modified my powder/shot ratio in my 20 gauge fowlers to tighten patterns. This allows me to easily adjust for rabbit, squirrel, bird, etc (or the turkeys that laugh at the thought of having me after them).

So my question is: After you have it jug choked, does it shoot full choke, modified, modified cylinder, or can you choose like the screw in chokes?

Thanks,


 
ffffg 
40 Cal.
Posts: 446
12-20-05 02:24 AM - Post#208837    

    In response to Rusty Old Gunns

you should be able to order what ever choke you want.. i will warn you that full choke will be your best option for turkey, but for moving birds its a real bugger, as the bp/flint problems really rear their ugly head in a big way.. but when the weather gets really cold it opens patterns considerably and full chock with bp is probabably acutally about modifed.. it would be best to have improved cylinder if you had one gun, cylinder and improved modified if you had two, and then of course three or four guns would be perfect.. stay away from screw-in chokes, i dont like them much with muzzeloaders. now before everone gets all upset, if you shot a jug choke and a screw in choke with muzzeloaders there is no comparison.. this is not the subject so i wont go into it now.. dave...

 
Duane 
45 Cal.
Posts: 904
12-20-05 08:40 AM - Post#208891    

    In response to ffffg

I had mine choked full. Great for turkey. I like it for wing shooting especially without a dog, in which case you're not cocked and ready behind a dog on point. The full choke maintains a good pattern a bit longer, allowing time to cock the gun and put up on the bird. Just my humble opinion.

 
Runner 
58 Cal.
Posts: 2071
12-20-05 08:55 AM - Post#208895    

    In response to Duane

You are right. There is no comparing. With my screw in chokes, I am not supposed to shoot patched roundball, so half of the guns usefullness is crippled. On the other hand, with a 90 - 120 load of 6's and the mod choke tube, I can put almost every pellet in a 20 inch circle at 30 yards and killed my bird at over 40 this year. There is very little to compare.

 
Rusty Old Gunns 
36 Cal.
Posts: 79
Rusty Old Gunns
12-20-05 01:33 PM - Post#208974    

    In response to Runner

  • Runner Said:
You are right. There is no comparing. With my screw in chokes, I am not supposed to shoot patched roundball, so half of the guns usefullness is crippled. On the other hand, with a 90 - 120 load of 6's and the mod choke tube, I can put almost every pellet in a 20 inch circle at 30 yards and killed my bird at over 40 this year. There is very little to compare.


Runner,

Is that a Mortimer you're shooting? If not, what is the barrel legnth of your gun.

I ask because with all the wonderfun information and insight list members are offering, I've been thinking about a jug choak modified. I can develope tighter groups by working on powder/shot equivilants from there, and still have a gun for rabbit and fly shooting.

Anybody agree? ... disagree?





 
ffffg 
40 Cal.
Posts: 446
12-20-05 10:55 PM - Post#209294    

    In response to Rusty Old Gunns

the quicker you shoot a moveing object moving away from you the better chance you have of hitting it, if your skilled in all forms of shotgunning.. trap shooters prove this all the time, the quick shooters usually kick butt in bad weather (wind).. a jumped (live)bird isnt moving as fast at first also. but this takes some practice to master at the skeet range to get used to this type of shooting.. what im saying is i belive youl come home with more birds if you hit the close ones.. you have more power, and a better pattern in my opinion becouse you can use smaller shot.... the best patterns are given in the average gun with improved cylinder.. what i mean is the pattern is more likely to be even over the 30 inch circle at 40 yards.. full choke will have 70 percent of the pellets in a smaller circle at 40 yards, with damaged pellets spreading out from there.. these outside of the main pattern pellets can make a kill, but are generally not dence enough to do a good job.. improved cylinder will give a very good even spread at 30 yards give or take, and will be a bigger pattern for close shots,.. modified is in between these, and a very very good compromise, especially with black powder in my opinion... for an all around gun modified is very good for the average shooter,as it takes a little longer to shoot with a percusiion or flintlock as mentioned above.. also as noted above as the birds get wiser thru the season you sometimes need all the powder, shot, and choke you can get.. so modified is a good overall choice.. you also said you have some cylinder bores, so you can use them for close in shooting early in the season, considering that modified would be in good order.. as you get into full choke range, your shot is moving several hundred feet per second slower than modern guns, and leads start getting pretty hairy, especiall when the pheasant starts changeing directions to turn down wind... all this is pretty moot if you dont practice quite abit with a flintlock and clays.. shooting moveing targets... with some cross trajectory to them, it is quite difficult with a flintlock.. youl do fine whatever you choose.. youll adapt to the type of gun you have and hunt to give you the results you want if you practice and work at your hunting stratagies.. dave.

 
Runner 
58 Cal.
Posts: 2071
12-21-05 11:24 AM - Post#209513    

    In response to ffffg

I personally would try to work up a good load in the gun before I had anything done. No one has posted bad things about shooting roundball in a jugged barrel that I have seen, but I am sure most would prefer a straight barrel for that use. If your gun is capable of good patterns without the choke, that is how I would leave it. I would have the jug choke installed before going to tubes for the obvious reasons.
If I had taken the book loads and the advise most folks push, I would have given my gun up for a lost cause and sold it. I bought an old box of thick nitro cards designed for reloading shells. They changed a lot and the old saying about powder and shot filled in the rest. There may be such a recipe for yours without any choke.
No, my gun is a lowly CVA Trapper with a 29 inch barrel in 12 guage. It has the factory screw in chokes. It shoots all wrong if you read the shotgun advise on the net and in print. It doesn't like a lubed cushion wad of any kind that I have tried, and it doesn't seem to need one either. It likes the thick over powder wad that runs right at 6mm that so many say blows holes in the pattern. It will not shoot any kind of a pattern with a square load like so many recommend
people try. It likes a 3 to 4 ratio of powder to shot for tight patterns and good penetration.
The full choke tube is pretty much useless with lead shot because it shoots too tight. Too easy to miss anything moving and to tear up small game. That is why I bent the barrel. The small patterns were a pain with the high hold you had to use with the gun.
I was just caught a little off by the jug choke comments and the comments about screw in chokes. I wish mine did not have them because I would like to be able to shoot roundball out of it and so that it was a little more PC. I would prefer a little longer barrel to get as much speed as I could.
On the bad side. I have not been able to get a good 35 yard pattern with steel yet at all. I have some new steel shot wads here to try and I am going to use the full choke tube with them. At 35 yards, BB's are still the best pattern I can get. Too many areas here require non-toxic for all shooting to use bismuth for everything at 70$ for 7 pounds plus shipping.

Edited by Runner on 12-21-05 11:39 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Rusty Old Gunns 
36 Cal.
Posts: 79
Rusty Old Gunns
12-21-05 08:35 PM - Post#209797    

    In response to ffffg

Dave (and Runner)

Sound advise from both of you. I had planned on leaving it cylinder bore and attempt working up a load like I did with my 20 gauges (the one I "shoot shot" out of has a 41"bbl).

My thoughts were that since the Mortimer has only has 36 1/2 inches of barrel, the jug choke may be more appropriate for turkey.

I'll try paper shot cartridges as well... Hell, who knows what might happed!

Don't ye just love it!!

Give a boy a bag of lead, a bag of powder and a hollow tube and you make him happy.



(Oh... and a beer)



 
Runner 
58 Cal.
Posts: 2071
12-21-05 09:37 PM - Post#209816    

    In response to Rusty Old Gunns

Make mine a cup of coffee!

 
No Deer 
45 Cal.
Posts: 860
12-22-05 03:00 PM - Post#210102    

    In response to Rusty Old Gunns

I got my first turkey with my mortimer 12 ga. It is not choked. The turkey was out at about 20 yards. My memory is a bit fuzzy as to load, it was a few years ago and I use my trade gun now, but I think it was 80 grains of 2f, with 1 1/4 oz.hevishot, wrapped in homemade paper shotcup. Don't remember what the pattern looked like,the turkey didn't care, but I know if I had worked at it more could have gotten a better load.

 
Puffer 
40 Cal.
Posts: 253
12-22-05 05:46 PM - Post#210169    

    In response to Rusty Old Gunns

  • Rusty Old Gunns Said:
I just picked up a used Pedersoli Mortimer Shotgun from Track (Its still on their page way down at the bottom of the "Flintlock Smooth bores") The gun itself is in the mail.

I have a few smooth bores already (20's) but the only 12 bore flinter I have is my Bess, and all I’ve fired out of her has been .713 Balls and buck and ball.

Any of you fellas have any experience with the Pedersoli Mortimer? I need to work up a load. Any suggested shot loads for starters?

I know it isn't as PC as my other guns, but I figure the turkey will never know the difference.

Oh yeah... And Merry Christmas to all of you.



If the gun is the "combo" then you will LOVE it. I have one.
Rifle is a tack driver & accurate out to 300 yd.s (95 gr. fffg + 20-24 " drop.)
"turkey" gun
PC, for ME VERY, I'm HBC I even get to shoot it @ "trade gun" shoots that do not spec. "only "NW guns"

Now you need a couple of Mortimer pistols & then move out to the PNW so there will be 3 Mortermers on the line

Puffer

 
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