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asbrown

40 Cal.
Joined
Jan 20, 2012
Messages
478
Reaction score
12
Location
St.Louis MO.
Hey everyone. I took my .54 percussion to the range this weekend. I'm no pro shooter or anything so i want to know whether or not a 6" 5 shot group at 100yds off the bench is good, average, or needs more practice or load developement. :idunno: Load was 100grn APP 2F a 28gua 1/2" fiberwad, .530 RB and .010 patch soaked in borebutter.
 
Have you found the most accurate powder charge for this rifle yet? Personally I would not be happy with 6 inch groups as I know my .54 is capable of better. I suggest that you start with a target set at 40-50 yards along with 55 grains of traditional black powder, shoot three times using the same charge, patch and ball, increase by 5 grains until your groups get nice and tight. Only then should you change things such as patch thickness, type of lube, ball diameter or adjust the sights. Of the substitute powders I would use, APP is near the bottom of the list.
 
I can't hunt with 55gr. 90-110 grns seems to provide the same amount of accuracy, cloveleafs at 25. I don't shoot competitively so its really a waste of time to start that low. Why would APP be your last choice? I've been shooting it in my .36 and its a one hole punch out the x type squirrel gun. My 45 is the same way. Plus it cleans up super easy and I can shoot for hours without cleaning between shots with no apparent loss in accuracy.
Anyway, the ball seems to push down the barrel pretty well, should it be tighter? like I really need to push hard to get it seated? Should I lose the wad? I've heard some say that the ball obturates and fills the rifling better?
 
Average too good.
Those getting better have really good eyes or peeps.
Some variables worked with the patch/lube an charge should bring it down around the 4" range off the bench.
 
Without a lot of practice you should expect those 6" groups. depending on how stable your bench system is and how good your sight vision is. A 1/2" wad is probably not the best choice. If you need a wad to protect the patch a thinner, non compressable wad would be preferred. Sounds like you can move to a thicker patch. APP is considered the bottom of the barrel powder around here, but if it is working fine for you, don't worry about it.
 
You need to do more work. What's the rate of twist? How tight is the .530 Ball/.010 Patch Combo? If you have a True .54 bore it could be a little loose. What do the patches look like? Have you tried 3F? As far as hunting, FWIW my Harper's Ferry (.54 cal - 1-66 twist)has shot right thru a lot of Deer with an 85gr charge of 3F. If your gun Cloverleafs at 25, I would expect beter than 6" at 50. Keep at it, and keep feeding us data...you'll get it squared away...

Eric

ps - don't change too many variables at a time. Approach this systematically...and don't loose sight of the fact that you should be enjoying the Fun of all this...
 
smoothbore addict said:
No. Its a rifle. What kind of accuracy should I reasonably expect?


The 6" group is very excellent at 100 yards. You will hear claims for much better. But, go to a big shoot and watch the shooters and check scores. The 'X's know the truth. Ye dun gud. That should cloverleaf at 50 yards.
 
The twist is 1-70. The patches only occasionally show cutting but I think thats from the rifling at the muzzle being sharp. I've never seen a fully cut or blown out patch. I think I'll try the 90grn charge,no wad, and use a .017 pillow ticking patch for a tighter fit. This may open a can of worms but what lube would work "best" to get a tight patch ball combo down the barrel. I know everyone has their favorite so I guess I'm looking for the majority answer. I really don't want to have to hammer the ball with my ramrod.
 
smoothbore addict said:
I can't hunt with 55gr. 90-110 grns seems to provide the same amount of accuracy, cloveleafs at 25. I don't shoot competitively so its really a waste of time to start that low.
It's not going to matter what your powder charge is when you go hunting if you can't put the ball in the right place. Starting at one grain per caliber size; ie-55 grains for your .54 is one of the best ways to find the most accurate load for your rifle. Jumping around in between 90 & 110 grains isn't going to help you find anything but frustration. Start at 55 grains, shoot three times without changing anything and note where the ball is hitting, placing your target at 40-50 yards so you can see the impact. Increase by 5 grains and shoot three more times, always aiming at the same spot using the same diameter ball, patch thickness, etc. At some point your should see the groups start to tighten up. It's only when the groups start increasing in size do you back off 5 grains and you have found the optimum powder charge for your rifle. Then, you can start chaging other variables such as patch thickness/lube, ball diameter or adjusting your sights. Then you can be sure that you will be able to put a RB through the vitals of your game animal and put it down as quickly.
Why would APP be your last choice?
I have used APP when I did CAS and don't care for it at all. I would always recommend using traditional black powder to anyone after comparing it to any substitutes, both for cost, cleanup and performance. I've been shooting it in my .36 and its a one hole punch out the x type squirrel gun. My 45 is the same way. Plus it cleans up super easy and I can shoot for hours without cleaning between shots with no apparent loss in accuracy.
Anyway, the ball seems to push down the barrel pretty well, should it be tighter? like I really need to push hard to get it seated? Should I lose the wad? I've heard some say that the ball obturates and fills the rifling better?
The only time that I have found a fiber wad to increase accuracy is when using a conical. I've never observed any better accuracy when using them to shoot RB.
 
thanks for that. The wad was really just a lark anyway. I had them laying around and thought i'd give them a try. I have done load developement and found no discernable difference at 25 yds with powder chrges from 90-110grn. I will go back to 90grns, move out to 50yds,and start again. hopefully the increased distance will show better when an improvement is made. A 6" group at 100 is a slam dunk on any deer here in MO. Bigger body means bigger boiler room, and afterall, a 54 calibre hole is bigger to start with than any hole my 7mm can make.(please pardon the reference to modern technology)
 
A different consideration before tinkering around with various load components.
A repeatable, consistent, precise sight picture is very difficult at 100yds using crude iron sights and may be a bigger contributor to your group size than anything else at this point.

I used a tip given by 'stumpkiller' years ago to run some 100 yard tests with stout 90grns Goex 3F PRB hunting loads in T/C's basic 28" shallow groove 1:48" twist barrels (.45/.50/.54cal Flintlocks) and all of them grouped 1+7/8" - 2+3/4", 100yds benched.
(this was all to dis-prove the old wives tales about powerful loads "skipping the rifling" in T/C's standard barrels)

Take an 8.5"x11" sheet of bright, gaudy, paper like fluorescent hot pink, fold one edge over so you have a large triangle.
Mount the triangle upside down on the target with one of it's points located in the center of the bullseye.

Then sit that highly visible precise point on top of your rifle sight every time...you should see a tightening of the groups...and you'll know better if you should work to refine any load components or just continue refining your sights / sight picture / shooting form, etc.
 
:bow: :bow: :bow:
Sounds like a damn fine idea to me. I'm going to give that a try for sure. That round black bull is a little indistinct at 100. (I'm still going to take the thicker patches just in case)
:thumbsup: :hatsoff:
 
Definitely try the thicker patches. .010 is mighty thin.
50 yards seems to be a good distance for load development. As you said, the target gets a little small at 100. 25 doesn't really give the group enough of a chance to open up to where you can see the difference easily.
I agree that you should give some lighter loads a chance. 55 grains might be a bit on the light side for hunting if you plan to shoot deer at 100 or more yards. I'd still start at about 70 grains and work my way up from there.
My .54 GPR and my .54 Roy Stroh flinter both like 80-85 grains of 3F Goex and I have yet to recover a ball from a big Illinois whitetail. So far there has always been complete pass-thu on every one I've shot, from 30 to 125 yards.
6 inches isn't bad by any means but I think you can probably do better. :thumbsup:
 
smoothbore addict said:
:bow: :bow: :bow:
Sounds like a damn fine idea to me. I'm going to give that a try for sure. That round black bull is a little indistinct at 100. (I'm still going to take the thicker patches just in case)
:thumbsup: :hatsoff:
For sure...just remember not to change multiple things at the same time or you won't necessarily know which change made things better (or worse)
 
Thanks Roundball and Jethro. I'm going to take the .015 patches and start at 75gr 2F at 50yds with the triangle to hold on. Not sure when, but soon, I'll let you know how it goes. :hatsoff:
 
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