the specifics of soldering on our guns

Sorry Jerry,

But I don't use the hi temp solder I use this solder which is plenty strong for what its used for, and is from Brownells, Hi-Force 44 with the flux.

I also said nothing about soldering against a blued barrel, just that you can solder on a barrel without warping or destroying the integrity of said barrel, using the fire blued system as the upper reach of the safe temprature zone.

Have a Good Day Jerry,

Hope to see you at gunmakers in May.

Also,

I have soldered a large silver turtle front sight onto a Trade Gun and did not have to re-finish the barrel, although it was browned and not blued.

armymedic.2 said:

Well said mercer. Thankyou!

Apprentice......pray tell why u dont like them? Way you were taught or bad experience or both? Thanks.

Great thread for my pre build knowledge gain!

Click to expand...

More the way I was taught, and a dovetail seems to me to be a stronger system.

armymedic.2

I've used the staked underlugs on a few guns and they work OK.

My advice is Don't file down the two protrusions.

Locate them as well as possible into the holes and drive the underlug in with a hammer. This will shear off/deform the two protrusions giving a line to line fit.

Once the underside of the underlug is down against the barrel, stake the mouths of both holes driving the material inward towards the underlugs pins. TOTW and others sell the staking tool that's made specifically for this style of underlug if you don't have one.
Another option is to use a small metal chisel to displace the metal against the underlugs pins.
Properly done, the lugs will be very tight and they won't pull out.

As an extra measure, if you wish you can degrease, flux and solder the joint between the bottom of the underlugs and the barrel.

I always felt this extra soldering was a good idea.

Those look like spotting holes, not near deep enough. You're going to need to drill them to the proper depth. Follow Zonie's advice. I've done alot of staking on staples and underribs, so I'm going to add a few tricks.

You need to drill the hole until the bottom of the tennon contacts the barrel. You will need to decide if that is too deep, by the thickness of the barrel. If it seems too deep, you can file a hair off the feet of the tennon. Also, if you are using a normal pointed drill bit, you can save some drilling depth by filing the feet of the tennon to a point to match the drill bit. This also helps to keep the tennon more stable while peening it, and more solid after it is done. Like Zonie said, hammer the feet into the holes to try to distort the metal, to match the shape of the hole.

You can peen the sides of the hole, if needed, but stay away from the corners of the barrel flat. You may end up with a little bump in the metal that needs to be filed straight again, hardly noticeable though. Like zonie mentioned, it is best to do the ends first though, and if it is already solid, nevermind the sides. But, every little bit helps if you need it.

That staking tool from Track really helps.

If you're not sure about how solid it is after you're done, or if the tennons wobble a little, go ahead and add a touch of solder. Hope this helps. Bill

"Doc"

I just finished soldering the rib to the barrel for an 1803 Harpers Ferry buildup. Was pretty nervous about doing it this way, but didn't want to use screws.

Before the rib to barrel job, the two ramrod pipe seats were filed out and the pipes soldered in place on the rib. This was not hard. It was the long and highly visible joint that had me worried. Studied up and consulted local experts.

The rear, octagonal part of the barrel was clamped in the big vise, just the rear six inches or so, with the underside up between wooden jaw pads. The rib was aligned and clamped in place, and a line marked around it with a carbide scriber.

With the rib off, cold bluing was applied outside the lines using a barely damp cotton swab. It was fussy to just edge the chemical up to line without going over. Where it did bleed over I cleaned it up with fine emery on the end of a squared off popsicle stick. The bluing is to keep excess solder from sticking.

Now I used a MAPP torch with a flame spreader attachment to heat the barrel from the underside. Heating and silver solder bearing paste were applied in about four inch sections at a time, moving the solder as needed with the popsicle stick. I didn't worry about solder not being all the way out to the line.

With the rib in the small vise I attempted to tin the underside of the rib. Well, duh...the pipes fell off! Next time I will tin the underside first, then affix the pipes. Otherwise this went easily.

With the rib lightly clamped to the barrel, the torch was again used from the underside. Clamps were over the pipes. I started in the middle and worked to the ends in 3 inch sections, kind of like torquing cylinder head bolts. As soon as the solder was seen to flow in a section the torch was moved to the other side. I don't know if this is necessary, but it made me feel clever.

This was enough nervous tension for the night, so I let it cool overnight, then cleaned up the joint and removed the cold bluing with 4-ought steel wool the next evening. Joint looks good, we'll see if it is strong enough.

White Fox

White Fox, when you go to solder those thimbles back on, it helps to wire, or clamp, the rib in place before you apply the heat. That way, the rib won't move, or pop up due to uneven heating, when the heat is hot enough to remelt the solder around the thimbles. I like wire because it doesn't suck alot of heat away from the solder area. You can even wire in a metal rod, through the thimbles, so nothing will move when the solder melts. Bill

You are using a torch to heat the parts to solder: I am using a soldering rod. it makes a difference. If I were using a torch, I would certainly do it your way. :hatsoff:

I also like the idea of using a graphite pencil to coat the area around the solder as a release agent. However, only about 1 out of 10 students seem to take the time to thoroughly cover the entire area with the graphite. I have done it- successfully--- and would do it again, if I didn't have faster release agents to use.

I have also found my idea of "THIN" differs from many other people when they attempt to tin a part. I learned the technique from my father when I was a boy, and he was making electronic testing equipment for the paper industry. He had me repeat the " Exercise" until I got the coating of solder REALLY THIN- pointing out that when two such parts are put together and heated enough to melt the solder on both parts, there is plenty of solder to bond the parts together. :hmm: :surrender: :thumbsup:

My mistake. I didn't even know they had two different kinds with the same name. I thought they only had the one kind. now I know. Thanks.
That stuff should work fine if you can keep the flux off of the blue part. I might go to the gunmakers fair.
PS-- Staking works well also, but it's hard for some people to do.

:bow: :bow: :bow: