Colonial fowler barrel markings questions

Folks, I have been carefully disassembling my 1790-1820 era fowler, and managed to download pictures of the only stampings or identification markings I could find.
This is located on the bottom flat of the breech end of the barrel. Please help me identify what these markings might be - I am quite interested in learning the "story" behind this interesting gun!

I do not have time to upload more images, but I plan on documenting every square inch of every component, pin, and scar for posterity.

Basic barrel dimensions - almost 38" from breechplug to muzzle; 5/8" bore ID, barrel is octagonal to round about 15" from breechplug.

I appreciate any ideas!

Adam

Hi,
The hen is for Henneberg County, Germany and the SUL stamped backwards is for the city of Suhl, which is in Henneberg. I suspect the barrel is considerably older than 1790, however, that does not mean the gun was made earlier than you suggest. I do not recognize the other marks, which probably identify the barrel maker.

dave

Dave Person said:

Hi,
The hen is for Henneberg County, Germany and the SUL stamped backwards is for the city of Suhl, which is in Henneberg. I suspect the barrel is considerably older than 1790, however, that does not mean the gun was made earlier than you suggest. I do not recognize the other marks, which probably identify the barrel maker.

dave

Click to expand...

Wow - great to know, Dave! Would you be willing to share some "places to look" for resources I might use to learn more?

I really appreciate your thoughts.
Adam

Hello all, I uploaded pictures of the fowler to my picasa album. Here is the direct link. I hope it works!

Colonial fowler album

Thanks all - looking for any observations or identifications anyone may have on this old gun. It is a very fun project, just getting to know more about it! This is something that will be remaining in my family. No plans on shooting it, trading or selling - it's a part of the "clan" at this point!

V/R Adam

My opinion only, others may disagree or point out things I have missed:

You have an American made fowler, no earlier than 1790 and maybe as late as 1825. The German barrel may be from an earlier gun as may be the trigger guard and buttplate. The later two parts are of English style and the barrel fits the gun's style of American construction well.

Very nice altogether and in good, untouched condition, just the way it should be. You and your family have done well preserving it and caring for it.

I would be very proud to have that gun on my wall.!!!

Boy that looks like a New England style Fowler to me. Very nice! :thumbsup:

Looks like a militia musket that could have been built about any where in the states post 1810. I GOTTA have one of those chicken stamps! :bow:
Thanks for showing....the gun is in great shape! :thumbsup:

Mike, you are probably right on the date but I have my doubts about the militia use, this gun won't take a bayonet and that was a requirement - at least here in Virginia. It is a fowler.

Very nice gun - and in really great shape. Hold on to her. :thumbsup: Rick.

Thanks for the ideas, information, and great comments!

I really enjoy this gun's "patchwork quilt" make-up...all the more interesting, to me, that it represents a very common early US "recycling program" of sorts.

Makes sense, as the demand for any sort of firearms was probably always greater than supply back then - considering the rapid growth of our country as the 19th century wore on.

I have to weed through my photos and update my picasa album with some better pictures.

V/R, Adam

Folks, I added more pictures of the gun components. Here is the link again. Probably 15-20 more pictures, thanks for any info about this gun!

Adam's fowler album

In case the photo album link isn't working, these are some of the pics right here.



https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/...x7I/AAAAAAAAEPs/XEuWz59gcfs/s912/P1100521.JPG






https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/...AAEwI/Mrah1B3D2QI/s640/freeman%20fowler63.JPG


https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/...AAExQ/IscAkpu8040/s912/freeman%20fowler67.JPG
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/...AAEvE/8z_iCKnnerQ/s912/freeman%20fowler52.JPG


https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/...AAExI/_ikcQFgah4A/s912/freeman%20fowler69.JPG



I really know only the most basic information about ML's and 18-19th century gunmaking in general - so I truly am trying to learn anything I can from all of your experiences with "period" ML's!

Sincere thanks for your help!

Adam

Hi Adam,
I don't have any listing of "Fiddian" in my sources for gunmakers, lockmakers, retailers, etc in England or America. It must be obvious to you that the mainspring is a replacement. I wish I could locate some definitive information on the barrel markings, but to my knowledge the hen stamp on sporting gun barrels was used during the 16th-early 18th centuries and thereafter usually only the letters SVL were stamped on the barrels from Suhl. It is possible that your barrel is really, really old. Much older than the rest of the gun.

dave

Dave Person said:

Hi Adam,
I don't have any listing of "Fiddian" in my sources for gunmakers, lockmakers, retailers, etc in England or America. It must be obvious to you that the mainspring is a replacement. I wish I could locate some definitive information on the barrel markings, but to my knowledge the hen stamp on sporting gun barrels was used during the 16th-early 18th centuries and thereafter usually only the letters SVL were stamped on the barrels from Suhl. It is possible that your barrel is really, really old. Much older than the rest of the gun.

dave

Click to expand...

Thanks for the feedback, again, Dave!

I tend to believe that this barrel is much older compared to all of the other parts of this "mash-up" or American hybrid. I base this only on what I have recently dug up, which matches your observations, in that the "hen" along with the SVL (Suhl) stamps appear together on the older arms from Suhl.

On some VERY high-priced antique firearms auction sites, there were examples of matchlock and early flintlock German guns from the early 1600's to the middle 1700's which supposedly had these combinations of markings.

When I get done with work, I will remember to upload the pic of the barrel showing where a front sight was long ago removed - looks like it was filed off smooth.

Hey, this is definitely one of the fun part of guns that I really enjoy - piecing together their history!

V/R
Adam

Hi Adam,
Looking at the triggerguard and buttplate, they are similar to Brown Bess models from the 1740s-1750s but there is no hole for a sling swivel in the guard. That suggests to me that they may be from a cavalry carbine from that time or possible one of the models of light infantry carbines from the same period.

dave

Attached two pics of the barrel showing where the original sight was cut flush, and possibly a later gunsmith filed in two grooves to retain a different front sight.

I'm just guessing on this!




Adam

Thanks for posting this, very interesting, and a chance for all of us to see an old gun. :hatsoff:

Mike Brines said:

Thanks for posting this, very interesting, and a chance for all of us to see an old gun. :hatsoff:

Click to expand...

Mike,

Thank you for taking the time to follow along! Glad that the old girl is interesting to others as well. :grin:

I think when I am able to post pics of the stock itself in more clarity, there will be even more "head scratching" and puzzlement.
Although the stock appears to be a solid, one piece affair, it has been quite carefully "assembled" from what I believe was originally a half-stocked form into the full-stock it is today.
It has two cleanly spliced sections that neatly finish off just before the muzzle.

It is my belief - just a guess - that a long-ago 19th century gunsmith, with his usual shop full of hand-me-downs, broken guns, cast-offs, and boxes of parts saved from such guns assembled this one "from the scraps" for whatever reason.

Also, I thought that possibly this could have been a home-built creation done by a farmer, landowner, or woodsman in a similar manner; basically building his gun out of parts he may have collected or "traded fer" in order to have a weapon that suited his needs.

The manner in which the stock splices were done is very interesting - I have many questions about the methods and materials.

Pictures will best tell the story - and by all means, I appreciate any other theories as to how this gun may have ended up as it is!

V/R
Adam

Thanks for Posting. Very interesting. Rick.