pedersoli country hunter

Hello, I'm a newbie and I'm interested in an un-fired but used pedersoli flintlock country hunter, mostly because it's affordable for me and the dream guns aren't.

Link

I am interested in some casual plinking, deer hunting, and maybe attending some re-enacting events someday down the road.

First...i know this isn't a replica of anything in particular...Is it completely in left field, or could it pass for something historical?? And if so, roughly what time period / geographic area /type of person?

Second, about the 1:34 twist and the short barrel...from my limited understanding it sounds like it will perform best with conical bullets or sabots, but rounds might be ok with a lighter charge for plinking?? Will this (conicals and sabots) be disappointing for me in the long run? For some reason I like the aesthetics of the round balls. Do Sabots leave plastic bits flying all over the landscape or can you retrieve them?

thanks for your thoughts...

Welcome.

That seems like an awfully fast twist for round ball. But what do I know? If you look at the page you linked to, you'll see that Pedersoli's recommended bullet is a round ball and the recommended bullet mold is a twin cavity round ball mold.

Warmest Regards,
Robert

p.s. i get that this rifle is probably a heresy for someone who is serious about their history..i'm just curious to know how much of an affront it is, and wondering whether it will make any difference to how I would enjoy it as a beginner...

i was surprised to see pedersoli recommend a round ball, but maybe with the short barrel it makes sense? i suppose something this short is intended as a handy bush gun for short range work anyway...

You didn't say what the seller is asking for that Country Hunter sickle hocks, but if it's any more than $250 or so I would be monitoring the various muzzle loader forum classifieds looking for a decent used Lyman Great Plains flinter in the $350 range.

It's pretty close to 250, which is about right for me...this is kind of a whim, butchered some steers and kept the horns and thought it would be nice to make a powder horn, and then started looking at used rifles, and I can see the slippery slope...
I'm Canadian and I don't know how often used stuff comes available here.

Man's gota start some where and I say go for it! :thumbsup:
As long as you dont get up-side-down in the price of the rifle you should be fine, However it wouldn't be my first choice for round ball.
Just dont over-rev-it with heavy loads and expect tight groups.
At least thats been my experience with faster twists and round ball.

BTW: that is a nice looking rifle!

As an introductory rifle, I think it would be a nice piece to start with. Maybe on down the road, If You enjoy it, you can do a custom Flint build..I also say go for it...

"p.s. i get that this rifle is probably a heresy for someone who is serious about their history..i'm just curious to know how much of an affront it is, and wondering whether it will make any difference to how I would enjoy it as a beginner..."

It would only be an affront if you were to show up at a juried event, otherwise, go for it and enjoy it. Who knows, you may, heaven forbid :shocked2: , decide you don't like flinters and will be happy you did not invest more. More likely though, you will wonder why you did not get into flinters sooner :haha:, and will start saving up for that ultimate, gotta have, can't live without, flinter that will match the time frame of your choice.

WADR, I think you can spend your money more wisely, and get a better gun.

That 1:34 ROT is designed for shooting conicals- not Round balls. Conicals and Flintlocks don't go together- conicals came around when percussion ignition guns came on the scene. It will shoot RBs, but it will require a lot of knowledge- that you simply do not have yet--- to find the right ball and patch combination, and THEN, powder charge to get good accuracy from it. Mostly unless every thing is exactly right, the powder charge will probably be down in the 50-60 grain volume range, using FFg powder, which only allows you to effectively kill deer-sized game out to 50 yards or so.

I am most worried about the quality of the lock that you will get on such a gun. That is the most important part of the gun, particularly in flintlocks. The Italians have not shown they know- or care- much about how a flintlock is suppose to work, mechanically, based on the locks I have seen in the past. We see a lot of these locks replaced with American made locks.

To do your shopping, go to our sales section on this forum. There are guns of all kinds being sold here by members.

Also, go to the Links section on this forum, and check the suppliers listed. There are often great deals on the Lyman Great Plains Rifle, at Mid-South Shooter Supply, Midway USA, and other suppliers. Now is not the time to buying a gun for hunting this year. The prices are all high because of demand. The time to buy is AFTER hunting season, when stores are getting rid of their overstock. A lot of barely-used guns also come onto the market right after hunting season because of the Recession.

YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. Its an old saying, but its true. If you were to buy the parts to build a flintlock today, they would cost you over $600.00. Anything less for a new gun indicates that the seller is cutting costs someplace, and you really don't want a flintlock particularly if you don't know how to make them work, and can fix them. Save your money and buy the best gun you can afford. Stick with American made flintlocks.

Years ago, I got into Blackpowder shooting by buying a " Kentucky Carbine" in .45 caliber, on a Close-out sale. I paid the rock bottom price of $100.00 for it.

It was a piece of garbage, to be polite.

Everything was wrong with it. I barely could get it to fire out of the box. But, I had lots of friends, who answered questions, and a couple of gunsmiths to turn to in order to fix some serious problems.

I did the lock work myself, and taught myself how to tune Percussion locks. I had considerable knowledge on how guns work as I began working on modern guns when i was still in Grammar school. All that helped me diagnose problems one at a time, and fix them.

I got the gun working, to the surprise of the club members who saw me struggling with the gun the first time I had it at the range. It took a long time to find the right ball and patch combination, but I finally was able to squeak out the best accuracy from the gun, and win club matches.

Later, I swapped that information with a gunsmith and gun building friend who taught me how to tune flintlocks. He died 20 years ago, and now I am the guy people turn to when their flintlocks and percussion locks don't work. There is an article I wrote on Shooting and Tuning Flintlocks that you will find if you go to the "Articles" section on the index page to this forum. Its under "Member Resources", and is where you will also find the "Links" to suppliers.

Thanks for your thoughts,all...good cross section of opinion.

I will try to find some reviews on the pedersoli lock, to get a sense of how good/bad they are specifically. I like learning and tinkering so if it's not a complete disaster I would probably enjoy tuning.

If I were to get this fast spin rifle, I'd probably just use conicals if I were hunting...I'd care more about a clean kill than historical accuracy, and could get a better slow twist later if I really liked it. I do like the idea of playing with rounds and light loads just for plinking and fun. I hunt with a longbow now so 50 yards sounds pretty good.

Anyway, if any Canadians read this and have something better in their basement they'd like to sell then pls message me. I would definitely prefer a more traditional slow twist gun...But honestly, I don't think I can spend a lot more just to try this out.

regards

The Pedersoli locks I have used are good. They aren't perfect but they work well. A bunch of other people on this site will also state so. One other thing you have to remember, there is accuracy and there is accuracy. I don't think a 1/34 twist barrel is doomed from the get go for round balls. You must shoot it as no one can tell you how it will shoot. If it were a competition rifle, maybe not, and that is that kind of accuracy. If you are a for fun shooter and deer size hunter there is that kind of accuracy. Everybody starts someplace and this may well be your way in and you may love this rifle. If you fell the urge go for it. You'll learn a lot on this first step.

Oh, one other thing, the Pedersoli lock will shoot as well as any Lyman GPR. At least the way they come from their factory. :thumbsup:

Not a bad looking 'sorta' traditional looking rifle. Certainly no worse than a TC 'hawken' which has become almost iconic in the ml world. The fast twist would concern me for round ball use. Most ml events would require patched round ball for competition. If you can work around that, I say go for it but prepare yourself for an upgrade later. I guarantee you will want a different rifle as soon as the budget allows.

I agree with what ebiggs said about the Pedersoli locks. They are decent going by the ones I have experience with. Maybe not perfect, but decent.

At the price you mentioned that rifle sounds like a pretty good buy. You should be able to re-sell it later at not much of a loss, if any, when you want a better rifle.

From 20 feet it sorta resembles a rifle that could have been used in the mid-to-late 1800's. Some will disagree. So long as you don't represent it as being Historically Correct almost no-one will complain at a traditional shoot or rendezvous type shoot.

As to the conicals; They will probably perform better in that fast twist barrel. They will also cost a lot more than roundballs. You will need to clean the lead fouling out of the barrel too.
We do not discuss those little plastic things here on the Forum as they are not traditional. Yes they will fly all over the landscape. Yes you could retrieve them if you could find them... They will cost a bundle.
Patched round ball is by far the cheapest round to shoot, especially if you cast your own. They leave no lead fouling in the bore because the ball never touches the barrel. They are traditional. You can probably find an accurate roundball load for the rifle with a little trial and error, others have done it.

Whatever BP rifle you end up with, the members here will be happy to help with any questions you might have. :hatsoff:

Thanks again, all...good info, the picture gets clearer...Good heads-up on ammo pricing, I just looked at that and you're not kidding!

I think that I will pick this rifle up, and not expect to be too serious with it...if the bug really bites I'll try to sell it and upgrade in a year or two. Now it's time to lurk through the archives and learn some basics.

ps i won't mention the little plastic things again, it's nice to find a place that's not into plastic stuff... :v

Paul, great article on shooting and tuning flintlocks, thanks!

sickle hocks said:

Second, about the 1:34 twist and the short barrel...from my limited understanding it sounds like it will perform best with conical bullets or sabots, but rounds might be ok with a lighter charge for plinking??

Click to expand...

You might be surprised how well it shoots RBs. In my experience with a 1:32 24" 50 cal barrel, accuracy hinged on using a tight patch/ball combo, and the tighter the better. It appeared the bigger issue was the shallow rifling rather than the actual rate of twist.

I was able to go up to 70 grains of either 3f Goex or Pyrodex P with accuracy of 2-3" at 50 yards with no problems. That was a compromise, because I could go even higher accurately, but it required an even tighter patch/ball along with a mallet to start the ball. It was a hunting gun, so I stepped down to the slightly looser combo and 70 grains as "right" for my needs.

No prob shooting conicals of course, other than cost. Recoil will flat get your attention with heavy conicals and large powder charges from such a light gun. RBs are lots cheaper and great for plinking/small game at reduced velocities, as well as for deer loads with the tight combo.

I don't have any experience with that particular rifle, but I've been shootng Pedersoli flintlocks for years. Although their design isn't historically correct, I've never had a bit of trouble from them. I've never had to do any work on them make them work well. They function fine and produce very fast ignition.

Just my two cents.

I agree with Brown Bear. The problem is not with the twist rate but has more to do with the rifling depth. A tight ball/patch is the correct way to feed the gun; you can't have the ball stripping over the rifling.

ok, will try a tight ball/patch combo....does the nature of the patch material also affect how the rifling 'grips'? Would a thicker patch press into the rifling a bit and be more efficient??