new fowler - I hope.

I know I'm no long experienced expert and I'm jumping in late here. but

"Shortened in a mill"?


He fitted the breech plug with a mill?

Happy you got the fowler back hope all problems are worked out. David I have had two builds by TVM. Was told a year on the last one took 9 months. Have been very happy with the guns. I am saving for a fowler or a .36 cal southern, will have Matt build it for me.

But did any of those fixes cure the ignition problems?

I believe the reference is to the use of a milling machine.

:thumbsup:

Le Grand said:

But did any of those fixes cure the ignition problems?

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Don't know yet. Maybe today I'll get it dirty.
I do believe I now have a good working fowler.

Good for Jackie!! That's the way a customer is supposed to be treated.

paulvallandigham said:

I believe the reference is to the use of a milling machine.

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Yeah, I got that. I'm just trying to picture how a mill could be used for final fitting in a way that would be easier or quicker than using a file or stone?

I'm thinking final fitting, not rough.

Please note, I'm not questioning the method or that it was done. But I have a mill and lathe and would like to find a way to make fitting a plug easier. I just can't imagine a way to do it that would be easier than easing it in with a file and/or stone. Neither of which would leave a rough face, which is how the plug was apparently originally installed.

Not being there, and not being a metal working guy, here is what I surmised.
From communications with Jackie, I found he has a helper that does some of his work. I also surmised the helper is not well supervised and work may not be QC'd before shipping. (he/they work fast to keep prices low and I accept that) Jackie told me his helper had no comment as to why the breech face was rough. How it was fitted, I dunno. :idunno: What Jackie did was to smooth the face of the breech plug. I believe only that step is what he referred to with the milling machine. And, the roughage or shards left by tapping were removed. It was a small piece of metal that prevented me from being able to turn a scraper at the breech face. I am glad it was double checked and am confident all is well now. With a bore lite it looks just fine. Patches go in and out without any catching or hang up. The breech scraper turns smoothly. Jackie did find the sight was off centered and corrected that. I had been shooting about one foot to the left but blamed it on my jerking due to a terrible trigger pull. I corrected the trigger thing but haven't shot it since. The sight being off, no doubt, contributed to POI being off also. I'm looking forward to shooting it some more, maybe today, and am confident all will be well.

Supercracker,
On a fine rifle or fowler, the fence behind the powderpan of the lock should line up with the end of the breech. The breechplug therefore needs to be 1/2 inch long. The plugs as received have 3/4 inch of threads. I don't usually cut them back to 1/2 inch but use 5/8 inch of threads. The milling machine is used to but the 1/8 inch of threads off. Using a stone or file to cut that much metal is beyond what I wish to do. The"old time way" of doing it like the old gunmakers did is romantic but not practical.

I am attaching a pic of how I do it.
Jackie

[/img]

Frank,
I was making a joke about my helper not knowing what was wrong. I have no helper and if something is goobered up in my shop, I did it. Sorry about that, I thought you caught it. No one here but me! LOL
Jackie

Jackie Brown said:

Frank,
I was making a joke about my helper not knowing what was wrong. I have no helper and if something is goobered up in my shop, I did it. Sorry about that, I thought you caught it. No one here but me! LOL
Jackie

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Oops. Sorry, Jackie. Nope, I didn't catch it, took you literally. Glad you posted and clarified things.

Mr. Frank,
I tend to forget, on the computer, readers can't see my expression. No intent to mislead. Though sometimes I'm glad my expressions aren't seen. LOL
Jackie

My other toy.

[/img]

Neat.

Thanks Rifleman. Based on this and several other threads I've read I've decided to go with TVM for my fowler.

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I own a TVM fowlder and it shoots well. Please be aware though that the barrel, neither the octagon nor round section is tapered, as virtually all 18th Century originals actually were.

Also the ramrod channel is routed some distance from the barrel. What results is a gun heavier than it needs to be, both because of the heavy barrel and because the forestock must be left relatively thick to accomodate the ramrod channel.

You wont notice this until you handle it at a major gathering like Friendship alongside a comparable fowler with tapered barrel and forearm. A fowler, especially a $1,400 as delivered fowler, SHOULD be wonderfully light and graceful for its length, TVM fowlers heft more like a period rifle.

Another drawback too is that the abrupt step of the untapered barrel presents a discontinuous sighting plane. Again, how much better a tapered barrel is in this respect will not be apparent until you look down one side by side with a TVM.

There is no mention that the barrel is untapered on the TVM website, I didn't even know to look for this when I ordered.

Also, the sideplate of a TVM fowler is not inletted at all, but lays on the outside of the stock. I dunno the extent to whoch this is period correct, a number of experienced folks have commented upon this lack.

Photos of what I mean can be found on this recent thread...
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/260663/tp/4/

As a newbie these are things which I wish I had known going in.

The 42" barreled version of the Northwest Guns "English Trade Gun" sells for about the same price and DOES have a tapered barrel. I know little about this company but it may be a better deal.

One more issue that I need to look into to is that a breech cleaning scraper will not turn on the face of my TVM fowler either, perhaps it has a bur of some kind also.

At $1,400 delivered I'm not likely to ever buy more than one of these things, but if'n I had it to do over, first I would take a serious look at the used market on different forums. Better yet visit the major reneactment events and see what folks have offered for sale.

Not intending any unwarranted slam on TVM here, just giving a factual account.

Birdwatcher

Are the Rifle Shoppe gun barrels tapered where appropriate? Just wondering.

One more issue that I need to look into to is that a breech cleaning scraper will not turn on the face of my TVM fowler either, perhaps it has a bur of some kind also.

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Yes, probably a tiny thing creating a bigger issue. It really needs to be fixed. I would send it back, like I did at Jackie's request. The cause may be minor but you don't really know. And it can't be properly cleaned with 'stuff' down there.
BTW, the link wouldn't open.

Birdwatcher, I'm the one who decided to go with TVM for his fowler. I also based my decision on your thread where you're looking for a good dove load for yours. I have a "frontier" rifle, given by folks here a time line around 1795 to 1805. I don't do F&IW or AWI. I'm more interested in the War of 1812 or Black Hawk War time frame so I don't care if I don't fit in with the F&IW crowd. I called TVM and asked if the side plate would be inletted and was told the standard side plate is already inletted. The fowler from TVM will closely match my rifle and will have the correct "trigger pull". I already have a 20 gauge flintlock shotgun but with a short trigger reach. Every time I fire it, I smash my nose with my thumb. Its a Manton (?) style shotgun, very nice but more for RMFT era than my interest.

Birdwatcher said:

Please be aware though that the barrel, neither the octagon nor round section is tapered, as virtually all 18th Century originals actually were.

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I can find no info at the TVM site about their barrels. Is that a DOM barrel?

Spence

Drawn over a mandrel.
Sorry mis read, disregard post please.

steve