Just about to True Oil & Blacken

Well, it's taken some time....but I'm at the point where I have to make a few minor clean-up's and I'm ready to apply the True-oil to the wood, and then blacken the barrel and the furniture.

However, I wanted to post my pic's as I have a couple of questions for you guys and your input has always been appreciated....and once again.,..will be appreciated now!!

My two questions are:

1) Are my lock and other small furniture adequate enough to go forward with the blacking\carding procedure.....or do I have to have the metal sanded "shiny" smooth like the barrel?

2) As you can see from the picture, the tang has a small gap on each side. This wasn't planned (believe me!!) as the original plan was to inlet the wood around the tang. However, I'm working with a curly walnut...and in this area, the wood just did not cooperate and this is how I ended up. So...my current "thinking" is to just form a piece of brass for each side and insert it\sand it into the gap. Any other ideas would be appreciated.

Here's the pics....input welcomed.











Oh....and (1) Yes...I plan on "cleaning up" the side plate before it get's blackened. :blah: (2) And I know I have those 2 small "hash marks" right near the end of the breach on top of the barrel.....but man....I'm tired of sanding that part!!! :shake: Those were deep to start with!! (3) And yes, there are 2 fixes that you should be able to spot. That just let's you (and me) know that I am human and way far away from anything close to a "Master Gun Builder." :v

Thanks!! Dave

I hear you on the sanding and since being 'apprenticed' to a fellow in Indiana, he started me out with a file (good diamond files) then sand paper (320 then 400, 600, 800, 1200) Use small wood pieces like dowels, tongue depressers, square dowel etc and use a adhesive spray on the dowels then put the sandpaper on it. It will not be as bad on your hands. AND you can get into those wierd crevasses easier.

Hope that helps. I took mine further than you did on the sanding but then again he likes the shinier approach for engraving then 'balckens'. To which I am attempting to learn. :rotf:

If you have any more questions just ask. I am NOT an expert but sanding it down all over makes the lock faster too. There are too many builders here that are of good character and lightyears ahead of my poor experience. They will chime in with their sage advice.

AND keep up the work. Small steps are the key. You are doing more than most will or may even try! :thumbsup:

Cheers, DonK

Hello Dave,
You did a pretty fair job on your first build (?)
HOWEVER, yes I would clean up the lock plate a little more, also The forward loop on the lock plate I would file a flat backwards to the upper and lower square sections, not too deep a flat, only enough to identify the loop from the rest of the lock plate.
Yes I would polish the lock a little more, border lined about the outer edge of the lock would give it a more custom look.
Can you clean up the rear part of the tang? A few pieces of wood got away on you.
Carefully stab that section with an exacto blade, then bend the tang a bit, Or you could mix some your fine wood dust with quick cure epoxy.
If you use epoxy, be sure to wax your metal part( very well) of the tang, so you won't glue that part solid to the gun
You do have a nice piece going.
Thank you for showing
Old Ford

You need to worry more about the stock than the metal at this point. Guns are ROUND, not SQUARE. Also, Reduce your lock and side plate panels by at least 75%.
Do you have access to an original pistol to study how they are supposed to look?

If you go back a few pages in my "edward marshall build", Robby posted a pic of his rifle with a brass surround for the tang. Maybe you could do something like that.

This is my first build....well...not counting the T\C kit I did back in 1980. But those don't really count as "builds". :thumbsup:

To echo what Mr. Brooks said:
You have quite a bit of extra wood that needs to be removed before you go further.

Your not ready to apply the True-oil yet, that stock needs a lot more profiling first.

I took a look....side by side, of my pistol compared to pictures of finished pistol's. Man....I thought for sure mine was round-er that it was!!! :idunno: :rotf:

Now, that I've compared it to a picture, I think I need to print out a pic to keep on my bench....so I have a "target" to keep in mind.

As for the "reducing" the lock by 75%.....I have no idea what you mean. :idunno:

The wood above and below where your lock sits (lock/side panel) is to wide and needs to thinned in those areas.

Swampy said:

The wood above and below where your lock sits (lock/side panel) is to wide and needs to thinned in those areas.

Click to expand...

Front and back too!
Use a rasp to shape your gun, not sandpaper!

Davemuzz

I know others have mentioned these things but here is what I see in your photos:

The front side of the grip needs to become much more rounded. Grip the pistol and let the feel be a guide.

The lock panal needs to be lowered so that the front part of the lockplate doesn't look like it is down in a hole. The depth of the lock mortice should be the same as the thickness of the lockplate at any given location.
That is to say the edges of the lock should not protrude from the flat surface but it also should not look like it is down below the flat surface.

While your lowering the locks panel, also lower the sideplates panel to match the distance from the barrel out to the flats.

Speaking of the sideplate, it also needs to be inlayed into the flat. The depth should be the same as the amount of unchamfered edge on the plate. This will make the start of the chamfer start right where the wood stops.

Your trigger guard does not look like it is inletted into the bottom of the stock.
It should not look like it was sitting "on" the surface. Rather the two feet should be inletted into mortises so that they look like they are a part of the wood with the trigger bow rising outward.**

I don't see a good picture showing the widths of the wood on either side of the barrel but I suspect there are some 3/32" wide flats on both sides? If so, the forend needs to be made narrower with any sharp edges rounded off leaving less than 1/16" (1/32 is better) of flat at the most. Many rifles and pistols actually have no flat at all on either side of the barrel. The wood is rounded to sharp points running along the length of the barrel.

If the forend needed thinning and rounding as I suggested in the last paragraph, you will need to thin or slightly round off the wood above the lock to blend in with the forends new thickness and sharpness.

You did a good job of inletting the sides of the barrel tang but you already know there is a problem at the end.
There are several ways to fix this but all of the good ones take quite a bit of work.

Filling the area with a mixture of sanding dust (your going to have quite a bit of it if you fix the above problems) with glue will work but it usually won't be easy to hide.

Another approach is to get a small brass inlay from one of the suppliers and get your file out.

A medium sized shield shape can be modified so that the upper part of it fits the end of the tang up to the two shoulders.
This can then be bent to match the curvature of the grip and inletted into the wood to cover the gaps.


** When inletting any of these items first get some magic glue and glue them in place. Then use a sharp pointed hobby knife to cut straight down into the wood along all of the edges of the metal part.
After cutting around the edges at least twice, rap the metal object with a soft hammer or stick and it will pop off.
Then use a small razor sharp chisel to cut away the wood in the center of the mortice and to smooth the bottom.

Have fun.

EDIT: All of your metal parts need to be smoothed out to remove the roughness.
Use the black "wet/dry" carbide sandpaper backed with an eraser or wooden block on the flat surfaces. Start with 120 grit. Then use 160 or 180 grit. Finish with 220 or 400 grit paper.

Dave,
Buddy, you are not at the half way point much less ready to stain and finish. Frankly I'm glad you posted your progress so far. We can give you some help now, when it counts. Please do not be offended. I want to see you complete that pistol to the best best of your ability. Let us help you.
1. Stop, take a break. Put the tools, sand paper and maybe even the pistol away for a little while.

2. Study up on American/Kentucky/Pennsylvania rifles and pistols. Likely you will be able to find some examples in shops and museums in your area. When you find one study it closely and imagine how the maker shaped the wood. If you can not handle or view an original search the net.
Finally and most importantly get a good book/dvd on gun building. Recreating the American Longrifle by Shumway Publishers is a very good one aslo The Art of Building the Pennsylvania Longrifle by Dixon's Muzzleloading Shop is a brief but very good book. Jim Chambers at flintlocks.com offers several dvds. Check out the gun building sticky at the top of this forum.

3. Get some good tools. most of your in letting is pretty much done. You still need to get that trigger guard and side plate down so I think a good 1/4 chisel is in order. You also need sharpening stones to keep it razor sharp. You need a vice to hold your work. It is near impossible to build a gun without it. For shaping you need an assortment files and rasps. Round, triangle, bastard, half round, flat, and small riffles and jewelers files are all types of files. They all come in different cuts like fine and course ect. You might could make due with just assorted files but the progress would be slower. You need sanding blocks or paint sticks to back your sandpaper. Never sand unblocked. It destroys your finger prints and obliterates detail.

4. Practice on scraps of wood to get a feel of these tools and how to use them to shape.

5. After studying and developing your skills with your tools get to work on that pistol.

6. Don't sweat the small stuff. The nick on the barrel, the chip around the the tang, I guarantee if the rest of the pistol is finely shaped and carefully completed and the lines and architecture are there, no one will notice that and the more boo boos that headed your way.

Dave that will make a fine pistol. Take your time and good luck.
Travis

At least you posted pictures so it could be critiqued before you proceeded. Saved a lot of time by finding out you were trying to advance too soon! :wink:

Update.......Ok, here are some recent photo's that I took of my work in progress. The pistol is getting "rounder".

Now, I haven't worked on anything towards the front of the wood (from the lock forward) just primarly the grip.

I'm posting this to ask, should I rasp some more to shape it a bit more round?...or begin the process (I'm talking the grip) of sanding?

Of course, before I begin sanding, I will complete the rasping of the front and lock part and post this first.

Thanks for your input.

Dave

Here are a couple pictures of what I am whittlin on, looks like your well on your way.

Started out like this


Now looks like this

Davemuzz said:

I'm posting this to ask, should I rasp some more to shape it a bit more round?...or begin the process (I'm talking the grip) of sanding?

Click to expand...

You still have more wood to remove.....In your pictures you have flat spots that should NOT be there.

If you like the flat areas on the grip and elsewhere then your ready.

If you want your pistol stock to look like an original, there should not be ANY areas on the stock that are flat except the lock panel and the panel for the lock screw plate opposite the lock.

All other surfaces should have some sort of curve to them although the areas on the sides of the grip will be ALMOST flat. The ALMOST flat areas will be so small that they won't look flat. Rather, they will look like a transition from the curved front to the curved rear of the grip.

Another way of looking at your stock (no pun intended) is to hold it up between you and a bright light.

Holding it in this location, rotate the stock.
If you see any sharp edges they should be removed by rounding them off. If the edge of a flat exists, it will cast a sharp edged shadow. If there are no flats there will be no sharp edged shadows. Only a gently changing degree of darkness.

Take a good look at the stock in the photos ApprenticeBuilder posted.

Notice the sharp edges in the "BEFORE" and how they became rounded, blended and smoothed in the after picture.

This rounding, blending and smoothing shouldn't really remove a lot of wood. Only enough to round off every sharp edge.

When I say "every" I'm talking about everything EXCEPT the lock and side plate panels.
They should be flat.

Gentlemen,

Thank you for your post and your comments. They really do help.

The pictures that ApprenticeBuilder posted give me some great perspective on where I need to go. I'm a "learn by see it" kind of guy, so seeing a final product doesn't really help me much.

So, AP, Black Hand, and Zonie....I thank you for your input!! It's off to the workshop on this rainy day to have at it with the rasp some more. :thumbsup:

Dave

I hope you didn't overdo the rasping.
Rasps tend to leave flat surfaces.

When the stock gets down to about where your stock is use 60 or 80 grit sandpaper to shape the wood.

Sanding across the grain will remove wood surprisingly fast. It also leaves scratches that will have to be sanded out later.

Sanding with the grain will be slower and will not leave scratches.

If your sanding the lock or sideplate panel use a sanding block behind the paper to keep it flat.

If your sanding anywhere else just use your hand and fingers to back up the sandpaper.

The advantage of sanding without a backing block behind the paper is it will produce smooth transitions from one shape to another.