I did a booboo!!!

In light of these comments, perhaps the best and safest thing would be for everyone to toss their short-starters. They are completely unnecessary anyway and the loading can be easily done with the ramrod. Much tougher to forget ramming the ball all the way down when you have all that extra rod sticking out of the barrel.

And before anyone starts the inevitable discussion of needing a shortstarter for tight loads (as has happened with this topic in the past), I'll just say it is complete nonsense....

Personally, I like a tight ball/patch combination in my guns. They give me the best accuracy.

That said, there is no way the patch and ball could be loaded into the muzzle without a short starter so, I'll keep mine.

Took the words right out of my mouth, Zonie. Count me +1! :hatsoff:

Having said that, I do have hunting loads for some guns that are press fit with my thumb, and I don't NEED a short starter for them.

I simply don't think its possible to make a Blanket Statement, as there are simply too many different kinds of guns, gun barrels, muzzle crowns, coned and un-coned muzzles, flat, etc.

I am convinced that the Short Starter as we know it today, came into more popular use AFTER the American Civil War ended, and Target shooters began using conicals, as well as PRBs for long range target shooting. There is simply too little evidence of short-starters being used much earlier, during the period of time that is the focus of this forum.

Black Hand said:

In light of these comments, perhaps the best and safest thing would be for everyone to toss their short-starters. They are completely unnecessary anyway and the loading can be easily done with the ramrod. Much tougher to forget ramming the ball all the way down when you have all that extra rod sticking out of the barrel.

And before anyone starts the inevitable discussion of needing a shortstarter for tight loads (as has happened with this topic in the past), I'll just say it is complete nonsense....

Click to expand...

Each has their own opinion!

I used to be of the same opinion and carried a short-starter. Contrary to my better "opinion" I tried it. Guess what? Even with the very tight patch/ball combo I shoot, it IS possible to load without a short-starter.

I challenge all you nay-sayers to give it a try....

What do you use to "start" the ball in the bore? If the load is tight thumb starting is difficult to impossible. Please share your knowledge with us if you know a better way. I find it annoying to have to carry a short starter and have an extra step in mt loading procedure.
Thanks

Under normal circumstances, I can get the ball partially in the barrel or at least centered on the patch on the end of the barrel. I choke-up on my rammer, get the ball started and ram it home.

Under extreme circumstances (stiff/frozen fingers), I center the ball on the patch on the muzzle and give it a whack with my knife handle. The rammer does the rest.

I haven't needed or used a short-starter in nearly 10 years.

Absent distractions and short start, my vote is with the possibility you had the bullet creep back up the barrel. How easily to the conicals slide in? I have had maxis actually creep off the powder load just from the air pressure caused by loading with the hammer down. When I hunt with conicals I always carry muzzle up and from time to time run the ramrod down the barrel just to make sure. It was the ramrod mark that alerted me to the bullet creep.
Also a reason I do not use sabots.

GoodCheer said:

Is that a 1" barrel? Can ream and rebore?

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I wouldn't trust that. The structural integrity is already compromised from the bulge. You may be able to make it work, but I'd rather just replace the barrel than risk a kaboom in front of my face.

Papa said:

Besides replacing the barrel you could have this one cut, remount the front sight and ramrod thimble and have a carbine.
Mark

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If he's going to lop it off and make it that short, I'd just cut off the butt stock as well and make a big honkin' pistol out of it. :grin:

Aw, Rafso, that do bring a tear to the eye. I'm afraid once you have a bulge that is visible to the naked eye it's the scrap-pile for that barrel as far as a rifle goes. Pity - especially with a well loved rifle.

My guess would be the fiber wad made it air tight and one conical followed the rammer back up - rather than a short started and unrammed bullet. This is especially possible if your rammer cavity is a close match to the bullet's nose. They can get swaged together temporarily making a little vacuum. It looks to be deeper than most short starters get and the bulge will be right behind the blockage. I've had R.E.A.L.s do that (before I swore off conicals) when I was using vegetable fiber wads.

As far as short starting - I have mixed feelings. I prefer very short starters, like a 1-1/2" long dowel section. That's just enough to get a ball out of a ball-block and into the bore. I then choke up to 4" or so of rammer and push the ball down; sliding my hand up and repeating. Often I don't even bother with the stub-starter (depends how much I am shooting). A tapered rammer makes it much easier to not need a short-starter at all.

I had a "oops" this past weekend. I had changed my front sight and was doing much blasting to get it filed down and one shot just was an odd bang and no recoil. "Aw S#&@%!" I stopped and did the m/l equivalent of a hard boot. Dropped the rammer in to the "clink" (and pencil mark). Swabbed the bore wet and dry, Took a few deep breaths (the first wipe did hang up a bit at 6" or so, causing more than a few gray hairs); but was just crud. Apparantly I had loaded powder and no ball at all. No hit at target, and backing down from one ball plus those remaining in my ball block (which I had reloaded once) I came up one hole short for the number of trigger pulls. The acts of filing and target checking were apparantly enough to mess me up - as was some shouting from loggers on a neighbor's property who weren't too happy with me banging away; though I assured them with my best Jack Nicholson wild eyed gaze that if they caught a ball they were over the property line.

I must say after reading this thread I went and sighted down the flats of Cherry to make sure there were no bulges. Happy to say she's smooth as a coal chute.

Obviously you do not have an arthritic shoulder and hands.To exert the pressure needed on a tight ball patch combination I would need to clean out a drug store's supply of painkillers,something I am not going to do.Blanket statements that ball starters are not necessary are gratuitous and uncalled for.

charlie said:

Blanket statements that ball starters are not necessary are gratuitous and uncalled for.

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And yet I will stand behind my statement. Done properly, it is no more difficult to start the ball with the rammer than it is with a short-starter. And if you can use the rammer to seat the ball, then you can start the ball with the rammer too. Even with bad shoulders and hands (you're not the only one who is falling apart).

I'm not saying YOU have to do it my way, just that short-starters are unnecessary to do the job. Responses to my post have me wondering whether people think this takes acrobatic movements and hands of steel. It doesn't....and personally, I don't give a flying monkey which way you do it.

I see that I have made the cardinal mistake of challenging a myth that has been perpetuated by those of the view that:
"I've always done it this way and there can be no other way. And no wet-behind-the-ears stitch nazi can teach me anything 'cause they are wrong and haven't been doing this since the last ice-age."

Sorry for the rant, but you guys really crack me up sometimes....

You as the Indian said "need to walk a mile in my shoes"I am outa here.

Jumpshot said:

GoodCheer said:

Is that a 1" barrel? Can ream and rebore?

Click to expand...

I wouldn't trust that. The structural integrity is already compromised from the bulge. You may be able to make it work, but I'd rather just replace the barrel than risk a kaboom in front of my face.

Papa said:

Besides replacing the barrel you could have this one cut, remount the front sight and ramrod thimble and have a carbine.
Mark

Click to expand...

If he's going to lop it off and make it that short, I'd just cut off the butt stock as well and make a big honkin' pistol out of it. :grin:

Click to expand...

The yield strength in that portion of the barrel is probably increased some. No reason with the information available so far to think that the strength is compromised now and the barrel prone to rupture. But, I wouldn't want to hear how many times took a repeat of what happened.
Micrometer measurements on the exterior of the barrel sure would be interesting.

In the 70's I had a TC Renegade 54 caliber. I found that minnie 54's and 54 Maxi-balls would move of the powder in the bore.

The Maxi's would move 10-12 inches toword the muzzle in 1/2 of a days hunting.

The 54 minnies would fall out of the barrel in an hour's hunting.

Patched balls never moved in a weeks worth of hunting. :thumbsup:

Well some have mentioned cutting down the barrel. Can't remember if I said it was a carbine already. My only option now is to replace the barrel. I don't want to do anything with this barrel. Don't think it is safe!

I called Cabalas and they are trying to see if they can get a replacement barrel from InvestArms. It will take a few days to hear back from them. My only other option is to get a GM barrel, which is a 32" barrel and have it cut down and go from there.

Anyway you slice it, this is going to cost me a few bucks. One of these days I will do something stupid and hopefully it will not cost me a bunch of dough!!! :idunno: