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ramrod spring?

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George

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In a 1775 journal listing the requirements for Massachusetts troops this shows up:

"Each soldier to provide himself with/ A Good Fire Arm/ A Steel or Iron Ram Rod and Spring for Same/..."

What is the spring for the ramrod?

Spence
 
in order for the nickname "spring" to have been applied to the worm they would have need to have been commonly using coil springs. We're coil springs common in 1775?
 
twobarrel said:
Could the spring be a tow worm ?
That was my first thought, too, but a worm is listed later.

Here's the whole list, some other interesting things on it, too.

Journal of Arthur Harris of Bridgewater, MA, requirements for Mass. troops in 1775:

Each soldier to provide himself with
A Good Fire Arm
A Steel or Iron Ram Rod and Spring for Same
a Worm Priming Wire and Brush
A Bayonet fitted to his Gun
A Scabard & Belt Therefor
A Cuting Sword or Tomahawk or Hatchet
A Pouch Containing a Cartridge Box that will Hold fifteen Rounds of Cartridges at least
A Hundred Buck Shot
A Jack Knife & Tow for Wadding
Six flints, one Pound of Powder
forty Leaden Balls fitted to the Gun
A Knapsack & Blanket
A Canteen or Wood Bottle to hold 1 Quart.

Spence
 
Supercracker said:
in order for the nickname "spring" to have been applied to the worm they would have need to have been commonly using coil springs. We're coil springs common in 1775?

My first thought was a tow worm, but then I wondered the same thing about coil springs.
 
Britsmoothy said:
To hold it in I guess so he don't lose it!
I have zero experience with muskets or any long gun with a metal ramrod, but I can see that its weight might tend to make it slide out and get lost. Is there any kind of mechanism to fasten them in, say a... spring? But then the spring would be permanently fastened to the gun, wouldn't it, so saying to provide a ramrod and spring wouldn't be necessary. A puzzle.

Spence
 
My bet is that there is a spring that goes in one of the pipes, like they said, to keep from losing the ramrod. Why would he have to provide his own?? :confused:
 
It's just a thought, but these Militiamen are to provide their own weapons, many of which may have been Civilian type Fowlers, etc, fitted with larger diameter wooden Ramrods. It makes sense that for Military use a Metal Ramrod would be mandated, in which case, while I imagine it wouldn't be that big a deal to get a Metal Ramrod, it would be much smaller diameter, requiring some sort of modification (a Spring?) to keep it from falling out....
 
twobarrel said:
In reading the list and the way it's worded, could it be a spare mainspring ?
Not very likely, when they specify in the same line a "A Steel or Iron Ram Rod" (probably replacing the wooden one the firelock originally had) "and Spring for Same", i.e. for the ramrod just specified. If the iron ramrod is a replacement for wood, the pipes channel would be rattle-around loose, and all of the limited selection I am familiar with of muskets and rifle-muskets with iron/steel ramrods have a friction spring to retain the ramrod unless they have a grooved swell on it that engages a stud somewhere.

Ah - Eric beat me to it.

Regards,
Joel
 
I've seen two types of ramrod springs (not to say there aren't more), that would serve to keep the metal rod quiet during a march.
rrod.jpg


A simple hairpin style clevis pin could be used against a thimble to keep the rod from falling out but that wouldn't keep it from clattering against the barrel.
 
ericb said:
It's just a thought, but these Militiamen are to provide their own weapons, many of which may have been Civilian type Fowlers, etc, fitted with larger diameter wooden Ramrods. It makes sense that for Military use a Metal Ramrod would be mandated, in which case, while I imagine it wouldn't be that big a deal to get a Metal Ramrod, it would be much smaller diameter, requiring some sort of modification (a Spring?) to keep it from falling out....


Ericb, you have it. The first Brown Bess muskets converted from wooden to steel rammers were fitted with a spring in the rear pipe. Apparently the militia was, sensibly, following Crown practice.
 
Using leather strips to wrap through the ramrod pipes will hold the ramrod in the stock, and also muffle any "rattle" against a barrel, or half-rib.

I once saw a re-enactor use latigo Boot laces to wrap around his forward ramrod pipe on his Bess, and it kept the steel rod from both rattling, and in the stock during maneuvers. I asked him why he didn't "wrap" the middle pipe on the stock, too, and he said it simply had not proven to be necessary.

As to the Spring for these rods, I suspect its some kind of flat spring placed in the ramrod channel( probably near the entry pipe, where there is enough space to use either a rivet or small screw to secure the flat spring) to put pressure on the iron or steel ramrod and hold it in the stock.

I am surprised at this discovery, since I did not know that flat springs that are that THIN were available in the 18th century. We are used to thinking of this kind of thing being a product of rolled steel plates, not something that would have been forged by a blacksmith/gunsmith using an anvil and hammer. Obviously, when I think back the springs used in Wheellock actions, such thin spring stock was available long before the 18th century. How it was made is another matter.

These items may exist by the hundreds in original guns now in Museum collections. However, getting any museum Curator to actually let you take these guns apart to find out what might be in the gun that cannot be readily seen, is NEXT TO IMPOSSIBLE, no matter who you are. :( :nono: :surrender: :hatsoff:
 
I used to jam a little Twig in the front Pipe of my Harper's Ferry Rifle to keep the steel Ramrod from JingJanging around while hunting. All it took was a little "clink" to ruin a long and otherwise successful sneak....
 
paulvallandigham said:
I am surprised at this discovery, since I did not know that flat springs that are that THIN were available in the 18th century. We are used to thinking of this kind of thing being a product of rolled steel plates, not something that would have been forged by a blacksmith/gunsmith using an anvil and hammer. Obviously, when I think back the springs used in Wheellock actions, such thin spring stock was available long before the 18th century. How it was made is another matter.
With respect Paul, they've been hammering metals, both ferrous and non-ferrous, down to very thin for a LONG time. There was no "spring stock", there was just a piece of suitable steel. If you want a thin spring, work it thinner, maybe recarburize it, and take appropriate care with hardening and tempering. As a probably very late example, when was the first spring-powered timepiece - the 15th century? And FWIW, the wheellock springs I've seen are hardly what I'd call thin.

Regards,
Joel
 
paulvallandigham said:
I am surprised at this discovery, since I did not know that flat springs that are that THIN were available in the 18th century. We are used to thinking of this kind of thing being a product of rolled steel plates, not something that would have been forged by a blacksmith/gunsmith using an anvil and hammer. Obviously, when I think back the springs used in Wheellock actions, such thin spring stock was available long before the 18th century. How it was made is another matter


Well Paul, thin springs have been available for as long as thick ones. They were forged and/or ground to the thickness and shape needed and then hardened and tempered, that's all that there is to it. :thumbsup:
 
Thanks to both of you. I knew that the coil springs in wheellocks date way back to the 15th century, but I never learned how they were made. What I did learn, from several sources, that they were difficult to make, costly, and prone to breakage. That is why only the richest nobles owned such guns, and matchlocks were still used by their supporting "musketeers" to cover them on the battlefields.

The high cost, and short life of these coiled flat springs was the reason that the V-springs of flintlocks overwhelmed the science of gunmaking at that time, and saw rapid acceptance that ended the ages of both the Matchlocks, and Wheellocks.

Matchlocks had a very long life, considering the advent of the Wheellock, and were still in use when the first settlers arrived in both Massachusetts and Virginia, in the early 17th century.
 
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