• This community needs YOUR help today. We rely 100% on Supporting Memberships to fund our efforts. With the ever increasing fees of everything, we need help. We need more Supporting Members, today. Please invest back into this community. I will ship a few decals too in addition to all the account perks you get.



    Sign up here: https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/account/upgrades

Richland .50cal Wesson has the barrel plugged

Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

rdrash

32 Cal.
Joined
Mar 28, 2011
Messages
47
Reaction score
0
Hey guys Im new to this site and fairly new to muzzle loaders. I've shot my hole life, but have recently got into shooting muzzle loaders. Now the problem is I have a Richland Arms co.(Wesson)that has a rag and broken ramrod stuck in the barrel. I left it with a friend (machinist)that figured he could get it out. Now what he did was screw in a grease fitting in place of the nipple and thought he could push it out with a grease gun. Of course the grease just bypassed it. The nipple threads are now cross threaded to. :idunno:
The gun shoots very good and I like it a lot, so Im just looking for ideas what to do next. Any help would be very appreciated. Thanks

Trevor
 
Trevor,
Re the nipple threads, you can clean out what is there and re tap the drum for an oversized #11 nipple. The next size up would be .255X28. As for the rod, you might try getting a "small" ball pulling jag with a screw thread to catch the end of the broken rod, but that will be iffy. You could also try dribbling some priming powder into the drum, seating the rod down into the breach area and shooting it out. Last resort would be to unbreach to barrel and push it out.
Mark
 
I'd try a piece of thin-walled pipe/tubing with threads on the inside that would screw onto the broken ramrod. Might be tricky to get it started but worth a try.

Is the ramrod STUCK in the bore? Or just broke off in there?
 
try some kroil penetrating oil soaked on the patch for a day or two. You could also try burning the patch.
 
Thanks for all the ideas guys. How would I go abouts burning out the patch? I don't think getting anything in there to grab the ram rod will work as it was stuck pretty good when I broke the rod off. Please keep the ideas coming Im working out of town right now and wont be home for a couple of days and then I would like to get to this rifle. Thanks again.

Trevor
 
I have never done this myself, but have heard of others by heating a metal rod and inserting it down the barrel to contact and char the patch. I've also heard of heating the barrel with a heat gun at the area of the patch until it smokes.
I would first try using kroil to soak the patch [plug the barrel and let the kroil soak a day or two] and then using compressed air to blow it out from the nipple. DO NOT try to shoot it out as that can bulge your barrel. By the way, how far down is it stuck?
 
With the grease now in the bore, I don't think shooting it out is an option. The grease will kill the small amount of powder by the time you are ready to shoot it. Heating to charr the patch is also out as you will have to get the barrel hot enough to burn the grease. It will also ruin the barrel finish in that area. If the gun has a bolster or drum(where the nipple screws in)I would try to remove it (sometimes these screw in a bit to far and will tend to snag a patched jag pretty tight) and carefully try compressed air at that point. The muzzle needs to be pointed in a safe direction.
If it's a patent type breech I believe I would have a gunsmith pull the breech to clear the barrel and fix the nipple problem at the same time.
Jon D
 
if all else fails, take it to a gunsmith. Have him remove the breech plug and just punch it out.
 
This is one of the few cases where I would recommend removing the breech plug.

Unless the right tools are on hand it should be done by a competent gunsmith.
 
The barrel screws into the receiver casting and so does the nipple. There is no separate drum, snail or breech plug. The casting is case hardened and the walls are thin so if the barrel is to be removed great care must be taken so the receiver doesn't crack or twist. I'd definitely take it to a competent gunsmith who understands the problem. The Wesson isn't your average muzzleloader. :wink:

John
 
Jon D said:
With the grease now in the bore, I don't think shooting it out is an option. The grease will kill the small amount of powder by the time you are ready to shoot it. Heating to charr the patch is also out as you will have to get the barrel hot enough to burn the grease. It will also ruin the barrel finish in that area. If the gun has a bolster or drum(where the nipple screws in)I would try to remove it (sometimes these screw in a bit to far and will tend to snag a patched jag pretty tight) and carefully try compressed air at that point. The muzzle needs to be pointed in a safe direction.
If it's a patent type breech I believe I would have a gunsmith pull the breech to clear the barrel and fix the nipple problem at the same time.
Jon D

Shooting it out? Me thinks youse is confused! I never said shoot it out. My recommendation is to soak with kroil, and then try air... I also said I've heard others try to burn the patch. Personally, I NEVER would have let someone pump grease into my barrel. A person might just consider at this point to buy another barrel. That grease will be a bear to clean up!
 
Sorry Sinner, I just clicked on the wrong reply icon, I was aimin at the OP.
Jon D
 
IMO, grease is a next to the last resort and if the obstruction is totally sealing the bore high pressure grease will do a good job of pushing it out.

Yes, cleaning the grease out of the bore is a royal PITA but with enough work it can be done.
 
Wow you guys really know your stuff when it comes to muzzle loaders. Yeah I didn't realize he was going to use grease, but what is done is done.
J Hansen is write the barrel screws into a receiver. I think it was a very unusual design for the 1850s.
There aren't alot of gunsmiths around here that I know of (central Alberta) and the ones that I've talked to would sooner tackle the easier jobs like mounting scopes on rifles and such.
I'll look at it when I get home. If I can get the barrel off, is the breech plug screwed in or pressed in?
Thanks for all the help.
Trevor
 
I haven't taken one apart but I believe JHansen is correct. The nipple screws directly into the frame as does the barrel.
The frame has the connecting hole drilled in it that connects the nipple to the breech of the barrel.

While I might recommend shooting the stuck patch/ramrod out, in the case of your gun I do NOT.
My reason for saying this is no longer a good possibility is because much of the barrel now has a large amount of grease in it and this may serve as a barrel obstruction that could damage the barrel or the receiver.

I did not see where you said that there was a cleaning jag envolved.

Had a cleaning jag been on the ramrod I would have expected the grease to push everything out of the barrel.

If there is a smaller than bore sized patch worm (looks like a corkscrew) on the ramrod, or, if there is nothing on the ramrod or in the stuck rag I think you should try the old TUBE trick.

The Tube Trick will have you buying a piece of thin wall tubing that just fits into the bore and is slightly longer than the barrel.
Brass, copper, steel electrical conduit, aluminum or even PVC plastic tubing will usually work.
The thinner the tube wall, the better.

This tube is slid down the barrel until it hits the obstruction and is then lightly tapped down over whatever is in there. As it tries to enter the rag, turning the tube as you tap may help it slip over it. Once the tube is down to the breech, pulling it back out of the barrel should bring the stuck rag and the ramrod with it.

I don't guarantee it but it's worth a try.
 
If that rifle with that set of problems was brought to my shop I'd handle it in steps. BTW, I do have a Richland Wesson and recently had to remove the barrel because of a different problem. I was sweating bullets when I did it because, as I mentioned in an earlier post, the walls of the cast receiver are fairly thin and case hardened to boot. It's an invitation to a cracked or warped receiver. I don't recommend removing the barrel unless absolutely necessary. Here's what I suggest.

First, deal with the cross-threaded nipple. The threads in the receiver can be rethreaded to a larger size if necessary but first check to be sure it isn't just the nipple threads that are damaged. It's a lot easier to buy a new nipple than to recut the threads in the receiver. If you have never tapped (cut threads) then I can only say "be careful". Remember, the receiver is case hardened. Turning a tap by hand could result in a broken tap in the hole and you will have another problem to deal with. Also, you will need to use a "bottoming tap" not a "taper tap" because the hole for the nipple is shallow. Once done leave the nipple out for now.

Once the threads are taken care of you need to get that grease out. Remove the buttstock and forend wood. To remove the buttstock remove the screw that holds the trigger guard to it, no need to remove the trigger guard, then remove the buttplate. You will see the head of a long bolt that goes up through the stock and screws into the rear of the receiver. Use a large slot head screw driver to remove the bolt and the stock slides off to the rear. To remove the forend you remove the single screw that holds the forend cap in place and the forend is gently pulled down and forward to remove. Next get an old pot that is fairly deep. The deeper the better. Fill it 3/4 full with water and bring it to a boil. Best to do this outside if possible because this can get a little stinky and if you are married you may find yourself sleeping outside. That wouldn't be too bad in Texas right now but I hear it is still cold in Canada. While the water is heating remove the screws that hold the plate on the left side of the receiver and remove the plate. The internal parts won't fall out. Once the water is boiling stick the receiver and rear portion of the barrel down into the water. We want it to heat so that the grease gets thin and will flow. Put a wet fairly tight patch on a jag and try to pump water up and down the bore. If the grease got by the stuck piece of ramrod and patch, water should be able to do the same. You should see grease start to come out of the hole the nipple goes in. Keep pumping until all you see is water jetting out. If you are really lucky the stuck portion of rod and the patch might get sucked up toward the muzzle and come out as well. If the bore is blocked tightly enough that water can't get through then hold the muzzle end and swing the barrel like a baseball bat. Be careful because the barrel is hot and the grease will be too. Hopefully centrifugal force will force the grease out. It doesn't have to all come out but as much as possible would be nice. Once you have gotten as much grease out as possible, let the gun cool, lube the internal lockwork (that's why I had you remove the sideplate), and replace the sideplate. If the rod/patch didn't come out with the pumping go to the next step.

Run a rod down the bore to see where the obstruction is. Mark the rod with a pencil, withdraw, and hold along the outside of the barrel to get a visual. Then, with everything nice and dry, dribble 4fg powder into the hole the nipple goes into. It doesn't take much, about twice the amount used to prime the pan of a flintlock. Carefully install the nipple. Cap, point in a safe direction, and fire. Hopefully the rod/patch will be blown out. If not, run the rod you marked earlier back down the bore and see if the obstruction has moved. Remove the nipple, dribble in more powder, cap, and fire again. Check to see if the obstruction has moved. If it is stubbornly remaining where it started out then you are probably facing having to remove the barrel.

Before anyone has a heart attack about me advocating blowing the obstruction out even if there is a separation between powder and the obstruction, let me say that I've done this hundreds of times over the last 40 or so years and never had a gun blow up or a barrel bulged. The amount of powder used is just too small.

The rifle you have really was advanced for the time. Edwin Wesson designed it in the 1840's. He died in January of 1849 while in his late 30's. He trained two of his brothers as gunsmiths. One of them, Daniel, later formed a partnership with Horace Wesson in a company called Smith & Wesson.

Good luck! I hope this helps. If you were local I'd tell you to bring the darned thing over and we'd take care of it.

John
 
Is there any powder in the barrel? If there is no powder in the barrel you can heat the barrel up to about 500 or 600 deg for a few minutes. After that the plug may fall out. You don't need to get it red hot.
Any thing under 800 deg. will not warp the barrel.
 
I had a similar situation with the very first shot I ever tried with a muzzleloader. Wound up with a 54 caliber short starter for a 50 caliber rifle and it was stuck good. Two old timers showed me a trick by clamping vise grips onto the shaft of the starter and tapping the vise grips with a hammer to drive out the shaft. Worked great except the short starter was history.
 
If there is still a piece of wood ramrod down in the barrel, I wonder if a fish hook would work. Say a small treble hook with one hook snipped off. You could fish it down taped to the end of a straitened out coathanger. Maybe even tape it on the coathanger a little crooked so it will snag the ramrod easier. Bend the two remaining hooks if it helps. Heck, maybe even try to snag the patch if there's enough to grab. Use some really stout line, like 20#. Just thinking out loud here, it works in my mind anyway. :rotf: Good luck, Bill.
 
Back
Top