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Parker hale 3 band .451

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norfolk shooter

40 Cal.
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just bought the abouve mentioned rifle rather than a pedersoli or ardesa. i thought that way i can fire both PB and bullet. on that note what size bullet would i need?? i guess im going to cast my own so what mould is a good one?? minnie or R.E.A.L???

cant wait to fire the thing. thanks folks
 
If your PH .451 has the Whitworth Hexagonal rifling it is designed to use the .451 Whitworth hexagon bullet.

Dixie sells a swaging die for this bullet http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=8084

Dixie also sells a Lyman bullet mould for the .451 Hexagon bullet http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=8020

And pre made bullets for the Whitworth hexagon bore http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=1223

If your rifle has grooved rifling any .45 caliber elongated bullet should work as long as it is made from pure lead.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
All I know about R.E.A.L. bullets is what I've read so take this for what you think it's worth.

R.E.A.L. stands for Rifling Engraved At Loading meaning the bullets are somewhat oversized and must be forced into the bore. This causes the bores rifling to cut grooves into the exterior of the bullet.

If the bore is fouled, ramming one of these REAL bullets can be difficult so if you choose to try them plan on wiping the bore between shots.
 
i was looking at lee moulds for the minnie but im not too sure what size to get?? im guessing .450 is too small and .454 is too big?? or would the the .450 mushroom out when shot?
 
Yeah, I would go with the lyman mould too. The volunteer rifle was made to shoot a pretty specialized bullet that in many ways resembles a long 45/70 bullet, that is what made them so effective. I would say keep the weight in the 400-550gr. area.
 
If it's the Volunteer, it is rated for a much stiffer load than the Whitworth. The Volunteer can take 120 grains of black powder! That's a stout load.

Dan
 
If you're shooting a Volunteer then depending on its age it will either have Rigby or Henry rifling. The former was used on the very early models which may all be 'two band' - I guess you may have Henry rifling.

The Whitworth version by the way will shoot hexagonal or cylindrical bullets. The two best Whitworth shooters I know shoot a cylindrical paper patched bullet.

I've never tried the bullets you question.

Light bullets c480 grains are OK for short range work, if you want to get out further you should consider a 530-550 grain bullet. When I had a Volunteer (Henry) I used the Lyman #457121 for short range (100m). Beyond that I used the Lyman #457125 which like most .45 moulds around casts bullets designed for breech loaders and requires sizing down to fit the bore. This will be more than recommended by others but gave me good results.

Although the Volunteer may take 120 grain charges, with the heavy cylindrical bullets you probably won't want to nor should you need to. I don't even use that much powder when shooting out to 1200 yards. 85 to 90 grains of Swiss #3 or #4 should be fine if you're looking at mid-long range shooting. Lighter charges may work at short range.

The nipple on these rifles can burn out quickly giving an enlarged aperture, which can lead to blow back lifting the hammer momentarily and loss of pressure. This will affect MV and accuracy. The 19th century solution and still used today by many was to use a platinum lined nipple.

David
 
i guess the bullets work by being just a bit too big in order to make a seal when you push it down. also are the lee moulds any good??
 
norfolk shooter said:
i guess the bullets work by being just a bit too big in order to make a seal when you push it down.

The bullets need to be just under bore size. Mine sit in the muzzle when pushed in by hand and do not fall down the barrel. They require no effort to seat with the ram rod. On ignition of the charge the inertia of the bullet forces it to expand to fill the rifling (forming a seal) before it starts moving.

Making the bullet "just a bit too big" will risk damage to the bullet when forcing it down the barrel.

David
 
Norfolk...David gave you excellent advice. If the bore is actually .451, then a grease groove or paper patch bullet with a FINISHED diameter of .450 is what you want. No forcing the bullet down the barrel. 500-550 grain bullets cast at from 30:1 to pure lead, an over powder wad, 80-100 grains of Swiss 1 1/2F 0r 2F powder, platinum nipple. Google up Research Press U.K. for tons of long range M/L facts. It will be of great help to you. cheers Paul
 
i have since joined the uk forum and have been chatting with david too. im going to take the rifle to the range on friday arvo and see what she can do. to start with (untill i get a mould and die) im going to shoot it with patch and ball. i'll let you know how i get on
 
David Minshall said:
If you're shooting a Volunteer then depending on its age it will either have Rigby or Henry rifling. The former was used on the very early models which may all be 'two band' - I guess you may have Henry rifling.

The Whitworth version by the way will shoot hexagonal or cylindrical bullets. The two best Whitworth shooters I know shoot a cylindrical paper patched bullet.

I've never tried the bullets you question.

Light bullets c480 grains are OK for short range work, if you want to get out further you should consider a 530-550 grain bullet. When I had a Volunteer (Henry) I used the Lyman #457121 for short range (100m). Beyond that I used the Lyman #457125 which like most .45 moulds around casts bullets designed for breech loaders and requires sizing down to fit the bore. This will be more than recommended by others but gave me good results.

Although the Volunteer may take 120 grain charges, with the heavy cylindrical bullets you probably won't want to nor should you need to. I don't even use that much powder when shooting out to 1200 yards. 85 to 90 grains of Swiss #3 or #4 should be fine if you're looking at mid-long range shooting. Lighter charges may work at short range.

The nipple on these rifles can burn out quickly giving an enlarged aperture, which can lead to blow back lifting the hammer momentarily and loss of pressure. This will affect MV and accuracy. The 19th century solution and still used today by many was to use a platinum lined nipple.

David

I use the Lyman 457121 bullet sized down to .451 and backed by 70 grains of Swiss N°2 in my Volunteer replica produced by Hege.
Seems to me it's the best bullet for the Volunteer at least at 100/200 meters.

The same bullet works in the Parker Hale Whitworth as well.
 
I'll add my second to what Zonie says about pure lead. The concept of loading a bore size bare bullet relied on the propellant's detonation to "bump" the bullet into the rifling.

Tin and/or antimony is often used to harden the load for some applications, but you will find these alloys not as accurate as pure (99%) lead as they do not expand as well into the rifling. You may want to purchase lead with known purity rather than rely on scrap, assuming you are casting your own bullets.

For match shooting, perhaps of 20 or more rounds, I've found 70grs 2F works well enough out to 600 yards, and avoids the shoulder-pounding heavier loads produce. Yes, I give up a bit of velocity, and yes, the bullet will wind-drift a bit more. But at the end of the day, I can still lift my right arm, my cheek is not sore, and my shoulder is not numb.
 
elmer said:
responce to Norfolk Shooter ,maybe you can try a TCmaxi-ball at .45 cal

Sadly not sold here in UK.

My P-H three-band .451 came with the proper Lyman mould and a sizer, too.

tac
 
Norfolk....You don't HAVE to use pure lead. That is a myth. I have a Gibbs I use for mid-long range matches and a Rigby I use for hunting. The Gibbs shot better the harder the alloy got. I'm using 24:1 now with excellent results. 30:1 in the Rigby, both use no over powder wad. No gas blow by or leading and the bullet "bumps up" perfectly, instantly. I shoot with a M/L long range national record holder that shoots a Gibbs using 20:1. You won't know what alloy your rifle will like until you try it so don't get hung up on the "pure lead" mantra. cheers Paul
 
The Henry rifling on the Volunteer is something like twice the depth of the Gibbs. That good results from shallow grooved rifling and hardened lead bullets can be obtained is known, but it will not necessarily transfer to the Volunteer. I'd start with pure lead to get a base line, then maybe go to 40:1 and 30:1 lead:tin before considering approaching anything like 20:1.

David
 
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