First smoothbore....What is "best"?

:thumbsup:
+1 for that.

As you say, the size of the ball is not all, but also the fact that the user know its limits.
I know that a .54 smoothbore is not a 200 yard rifle. But it is fine for me.

Thanks for helping me all

fyrfyter43 said:

Twice boom said:

fyrfyter43 said:

Twice boom said:

It has to do with accuracy / velocities that = Penetration.

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Surely you're not trying to say that a .44 cal rifle is comparable to a .62 smoothbore, are you?

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Not saying that at all. I am saying though, that the rifle has it over a smooth bore at greater distances .
Twice.

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Of course a rifle has it over a smoothbore at longer distances. Otherwise, there would be no use for rifled barrels. And a CF rifle has it over a ML at even longer distances. However, as long as each is used within its limits, I see no reason to say that a 28-bore smoothie is any less effective than a .54 caliber rifle.

What it boils down to is the hunter recognizing and being willing to accept the shorter range of a smoothbore.

A 28 gauge smoothbore is not a 100 yard gun (and neither is a 16 gauge), just like a. 54 caliber muzzleloader is not a 200 yard gun. It is the lack of rifling that limits the effective range of a smoothbore, not the size of the ball.

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You are correct if we were strictly talking big game hunting up to fifty yards . We are not though there is a second part to the equation that has to do with taking birds in flight. That's why the 16 is a much,,much better choice due to the 16's greater payload in shot count. ..

Twice

Yor questions are not causeing any fights, some of us like to spar/joke with each other over various topics, you are always most welcome to ask any questions and share the ML heritage of your country as well, we extend a very hardy welcome to the forum, it is always good to meet a new friend,

oops.

Twice boom said:

fyrfyter43 said:

Twice boom said:

fyrfyter43 said:

Twice boom said:

It has to do with accuracy / velocities that = Penetration.

Click to expand...

Surely you're not trying to say that a .44 cal rifle is comparable to a .62 smoothbore, are you?

Click to expand...

Not saying that at all. I am saying though, that the rifle has it over a smooth bore at greater distances .
Twice.

Click to expand...

Of course a rifle has it over a smoothbore at longer distances. Otherwise, there would be no use for rifled barrels. And a CF rifle has it over a ML at even longer distances. However, as long as each is used within its limits, I see no reason to say that a 28-bore smoothie is any less effective than a .54 caliber rifle.

What it boils down to is the hunter recognizing and being willing to accept the shorter range of a smoothbore.

A 28 gauge smoothbore is not a 100 yard gun (and neither is a 16 gauge), just like a. 54 caliber muzzleloader is not a 200 yard gun. It is the lack of rifling that limits the effective range of a smoothbore, not the size of the ball.

Click to expand...

You are correct if we were strictly talking big game hunting up to fifty yards . We are not though there is a second part to the equation that has to do with taking birds in flight. That's why the 16 is a much,,much better choice due to the 16's greater payload in shot count. ..

Twice

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I do agree that a 16-bore would be better for shooting flying. I was referring to your comments about a 28-bore for roe deer, whitetails and wild boar.

Twice boom said:

while it might be enough for those afore mentioned animals ,it’s none the less border line .

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Let's make this easy, Vegard, why don't you find a swivel breech, with a smoothbore and a rifled barrel? Best of both worlds!!

I do agree that a 16-bore would be better for shooting flying. I was referring to your comments about a 28-bore for roe deer, whitetails and wild boar.

Not exactly the way I said it. Both calibers will be just as affective on Roe and White tail deer on ideally placed shots. What I said is the 16 gauge will have it over the 28 gauge when the shot did not go to its intended aim/mark..

We are splitting hair on this one when the hunters intend is to have the best gun for game and fowl.
So the 28 Gauge has to be omitted from consideration, regardless if it is good enough as a one sided affair when there are two sides to the problem tha needs to be considered.
Twice.

why not a drilling. :thumbsup:
Twice.

I am having a problem with all the different opinions offered here. In modern smoothbores the 16 gauge does offer a greater payload with shot, but in a ML the rule of thumb seems to be that the amount of shot is equal to the amount of powder by volume. If that is the case, then 80 grs. by volume is 80 grs. no matter what gauge gun. the only difference would be shot string size and density. JMO

Not quite. You have to take in to consideration what the bores diameter can handle and handle it affectively. You just can't dump as much powder down a 28 bore as you can in a 16 bore nor can you dump as much as a 10 gauge can handle in a 12 .Law of Physics.

That is why ¾ oz of shot is recommended for a 28 -7/8oz for 20 1oz for the 16 and 1 1/8 oz for the 12 as ideal loads.Then again ,you can load how ever one chooses to ,but what's the point,why not get the proper bored gun for your intended purpose.
Twice.

Hello all

Oh well a drilling I have, but not a muzzleloading one.
A swivel breech,hmmm.......A good idea, but never seen one. I do like the idea, involving a lot of craftsmanship, but for a hunting gun....

Guns used in Norway in the 1700-1800 and so was more or less made in German style. Full stocked, smoothbores and later rifled. But, we made some great guns here in Norway to. Will se if I can find some photos to you all.

A famous bear-wolf-lynx hunter where I come from used guns in calibers from 14 mm and up to a 18 mm rifle, the larger was smoothbore.
He also used a lot of double barreled guns, shots guns and also one gun that had one smooth and one rifled barrel. A cape gun as we call them today. That gun is sad to be his favorite lynx and bear gun. Did read that the used to bait the lynx into a range where he used buckshot's and roundball for the lynx. Bear, two round balls. Baiting and tracking them on the snow when they just had woken up in the spring.

Will se if I can take some photos and share.

So, to my gun, I guess I can look around for parts and so, like the idea of having a self made gun....BUT, I got 10 thumbs, so the gun will not be, what to say......Pretty. No, I need help from a professional.

If I'm not mistaken those payloads are suggested for modern shotshells where there is a chamber length that restricts the amount of shot. No such restriction in a ML.

In part you are correct, but what you are not figuring in is the bores diameter that plays a big part in the quality of the Pattern .After all it is the pattern that kills the game, no? also in ML you have to conceder the Breech's chamber which in turn is very similar physically and in theory that was designed to accept a certain amount of powder . If you over load the breech chamber than it would be like sticking a 3" shell in to a gun that was designed for 2 3/4" .In other words in a ML loader the excess powder will spill over in to the guns barrel. Yea I know there are those that do it, but you and I are talking proper loads and what is safe and what is recommended by every manufacturer as a long and established safe load for each particular gauge.

That’s why I said the 28 Gauge as dual purpose gun and as a smooth bore has it’s limitation .. Limitations we have gone over before. We can accept them ,but we can not change them.
Twice.

This is true but most consider the modern shot shell load the optimum balance but smaller bores with larger loads and long shot strings are usable in many circumstances, and with smaller powder loads tighter groups can be achieved with open bores, there is a lot of options for experimenting with the ML gun with shot, it is best to set aside the modern shot shell/gauge concept/standards and find something that works for your needs in your ML.Many here use .62 or smaller for Turkeys by adjusting various members of the column, there is usually a lot of "stuff" being tossed around on such threads as absolute fact "my way is the only way" so it is probably best to take a notebook to the range and see what you can come up with.I found 1 1/8 # 5 shot in an open cylinder with a 44" barrel to work well for Squirrels,Grouse, Quail I drop to #6 shot for Quail out to 25 yds but again I am not a heavy user of shot by any means but this works for me and I would not insist my way is the only/best way to go....

I am learning more and more :thumbsup:

Thanks all

There is so much to be learned here Vegard, I am glad to see another of our brothers from across the sea joining us and look forward to anything you can share about the Scandinavian guns of old, I hope you will be able to put the new found information to good use in the years ahead, enjoy the journey.

Tg

Thanks :thumbsup:

I will post what I find.
Glad to be here and to learn, thanks for teaching me.

Glad to hear that .Then you might as well learn this while we are at it. :grin: And this is true in particular with black powder.
The modern 28 gauge shot shell has limits placed on it by how much pay load it can carry by the manufactures due to the size of its bore for safety reasons . They did that by creating a shot shell up to a specific length and not larger because of the pressures created by the smaller bores .Example: The 28 guages pressure is greater than ,the 20's and the 20's is greater than the 16's and the 16's is greater than the 12's etc. One of the reason why they limit the shot shell size. . And why the gun makers of long ago came up with the ideal formula to charge by for each size bore. Pressures and deformation of shot traveling down the barrel.
Now the Muzzle loader is a bit different, and why we hear guys telling us they load a 28 gauge to 1 1/8 or 1 ½ oz . We can’t have the manufactures there next to us to restrict us by how much we can load and apply good sense for us. We can load it as we please. But if over loaded by much the performance will suffer, not only in the pattern but also in velocities . Black powder needs space to burn ,so when you over load the allocated space for the 28 Gauge or any gauge for that matter by the manufactures . The over charge of powder gets wasted down the barrel along with the gun becoming unsafe becoming unsafe . It becomes unsafe because part of the ignition/ explosion is taking place in the guns barrel when it should have taken place in the breech..



Yea I know we have guys telling us they make do with smaller gauges in a pinch ,but the bigger bore would have done a better job with the same pay load and been safer to boot . You don’t go out and buy a Shetland pony to plow a field with ,you buy a draft horse to do it with. Same with guns .IMO.
Twice..

Twice,
Thanks for teaching me :thumbsup:

Well, the more I ask, the more I learn.Good.

:thumbsup:
Do you get lots of boars coming down from Russia..

I bet the fellow that hunts Bear and Lynx can teach you a lot about hunting. I knew a hunter like that once when I lived in Oregon.

Twice.