Lyman GPR question

Paul,

Thanks for the response. I appreciate the thoughts and your reliably good manners.

As to the method of carry and having a large hand at the lock area, I have the same idea when I carry in the field. My strong hand is protecting my firing area - whether flint or cap. I am touch indexing the cock/hammer so I know its condition and can manage it at all times.

But historically speaking, I had read in the past that other people did not use the half cock position so much as it is taught today. We all have heard the old phrase about going off half cocked. :wink:

The only problem that I have with your comments is that the guns which did have the problems were Besses and Charlevilles which have no set triggers. These were generally older guns and may have been abused at some time. Maybe the NPS test is not so damaging. My Bess never had a problem passing or functioning.
(actually none of my guns had any)

But having said that, your advice on not dry firing a set trigger while in half cocked position is interesting. I do not do this, but would like to study that situation.

Thanks again,
CS

One thing I forgot to mention. I carry the gun uncapped, because most of the time I use a sling. I don't have control of the hammer when using a sling.

So, when I do cap it. I'm not using the sling anymore and have control of hammer.

That would make a difference.
I only have slings for a couple of my smoothbores which were used for re-enactments. The rest are not carried that way.

I've always carried my gun capped, mainly because I am actively hunting if I’m holding a gun. I have not used a sling on any type of firearm in 20 years. I like my iron at port for when the big one steps out. Also, most slings are noisy and soak up all kinds of stank like a wick. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

We hunt different country. Pretty wide open here.

I'm not hunting until I glass an animal and start to stalk it.

If i'm hunting tight woods. I don't use the sling.

btw My sling is all swede leather. It slips over the butt and barrel. No metal. No noise. No stink. :grin:

Yep you're right there, not much open country here, except for fields, and you hunt those from the woods out, if you want game in the bag. Some people build shooting houses and they stick'em right in the middle of the field, wondering why they never take a mature buck the whole time. I've always just cradled the iron in my left arm and sort of draped my hand over the lock. I only hunt with the flint anyway. I don't take the capped brother out much anymore. :thumbsup:

Letting the hammer lay upon a thick soft piece of leather which covers the cap worked well for me, if I had to get down and dirty to go thru thick stuff I took the cap off.

Great comment, Pete. There are several carry positions where one does NOT have control over the lock or firing mechanism, in any long gun.

The Sling Carry is one obvious one. The worst part about the Sling Carry is how close to your head and EAR the muzzle of the gun is when its slung over your shoulder.

But, add, the "Trail Carry" (or "Briefcase Carry"), where the gun is carried at the balance point, often with the hand far forward of the lock.

And, the over-the-"Shoulder Carry"- Whether its carried behind the neck across both shoulders, or over the shoulder with the muzzle pointing either to the front, or the rear.

And, The " Elbow Carry", where the gun is cradled over one arm, with the elbow bent, and the butt and lock often sticking out behind the arm and elbow. The Elbow carry works well and is safe if you are on a "stand", and not moving.

The only two "Safe ways" to carry any rifle or shotgun, that is loaded and primed, is either the "Two-Hand Carry" or the "Cradle Carry". Both allow full control over the lock area and movement of the hammer, while the gun is being carried in woods and brush.

:hatsoff: :hatsoff: :hatsoff:

Mr. Vallandigham,
So, what was your recommendation then. Do you use half-cock when hunting or do you rest the hammer on top of a live cap?
You know I really don't think hunters need to be in such a hurry as they might think they do. I really believe you have time enough to prime or cap your rifle after you reach your stand or see a deer. But in fairness, I am at the point where I really don't care if I shoot another deer or not. I just enjoy the hunt for the sake of the hunt and if there is a deer at the end great, if not great. I do suppose there is the chance on the walk-in a deer could pop up, however.

So, am I to take it that should you ever hunt with the plain lever gun you use only one shell and then lever that one in if you spot game. I mean there are many hammered rifles both modern and traditional. Same stick that may yank back a cap rifles cock will yank back a lever guns. There is no right answer only one mans opinion over anothers. I am capable of using my rifle without uncapping, but if another man feels he isn't then that man should uncap.

There is a problem with lever guns. That's why the factory added a safety in the 80's. :wink:

I am not the one that mentioned the stick snapping the hammer back and discharging the rifle. I just find it uneasy to have the hammer down on a percussion cap and walking about with it.
I used to hunt with a Model 94, which I still have but seldom use anymore. I did leave a round in the chamber with the hammer on half cock. Was it the safest thing to do? Who knows? Maybe not but that incident does not absolve a continued unsafe practice. No cap has to be safer than a cap. No deer is worth an accident, maybe I am overly cautious, maybe that comes with age because I don't drive as fast as I used to either.

When walking to and from my stand, I carry the gun unprimed, with the hammer down. When I get to my stand( or when bird hunting with my shotgun, when I get to the field) I cap the nipple, and leave the hammer at the half-cock notch. My hand goes behind the hammer with either my thumb pushing against the hammer, or the side of my index finger against the hammer, depending on how I am carrying the gun.

I cock the gun ONLY when I see game.

I will admit that these "habits" were formed from shooting clay targets, or from shooting paper targets at the club shooting matches, when we were not allowed to carry a primed rifle to the firing line. We primed at the line, when the range was open, and we had permission of the range officer to shoot.

I have to cock my hammer to half-cock in order to put the cap on my nipple, which is easy to do using my capping tool. I cock the hammer after the stock is mounted to my shoulder, on the range, or just before I raise the shotgun to my shoulder in the field, unless I am shooting a rifle from a rest. Then, I won't cock the hammer back until after the rifle is on the rest, and game is in sight. :thumbsup:

IMO there were/are good reasons for the old timers carrying their revolvers with the hammer on an empty chamber, for the existence of "safety pins" and notches for the hammer to rest in on Cap & ball revolvers and for not carrying a cap lock rifle with the hammer resting on the cap.

When Remington created the "58" Remington-Beals revolver one of the Army's first complaints was that it did not have a safety feature beyond the half-cock notch in the hammer. The next model revolver Remington offered incorporated safety notches in the rear of the cylinder for the hammer to rest in.

I mention these things because stuff happens.
IMO carrying a percussion gun with the hammer sitting directly on a cap is asking for stuff to happen.
When stuff does happen with a firearm the results can be deadly for the shooter or for those around him.

I would definately want something between the hammer and the cap be it a metal cover or leather pad, that is the nice thing about flinters the hammer stall is a real positive safety method, be it thick enough leather or brass if the clearance is to small for leather.

When I shot a BP Replica revolver, I always loaded only 5 chambers, and carried the gun with the hammer down on the empty one. At the range, I used the Notches between the chambers to rest the hammer if the nipples were capped. My "Modern" breechloading Single Action Rugers are all of the OLDER model, Colt Style, Single Actions, and they are all carried with one chamber empty and the hammer down on the empty chamber for safety. I have no interest in the conversion kits that Ruger offered, as I think "load 1, skip one, load 4" is a very easy way to remember how to load and carry any single action revolver safely.

Mechanical safeties are simply gadgets that can fail you. Never trust your life, or those of others around you to a bit of metal. :shocked2: :hmm: They are primarily a late 20th century invention to protect gun makers from Products Liability lawyers, rather than demand an ounce of brains from anyone who desires to handle a gun. I am proud of my small collection of older guns that don't have mechanical safeties, and show them to my Hunter-Safety class students all the time, to make that point about safety. Both the young students, and their adult parents learn something about who is responsible for safety, and I teach them how to easily locate any such mechanical safety that might be on their gun.

"Use them, if you have them, but don't trust them " is my advice about mechanical safeties.

I know of too many incidents where guns fired when the safety was "ON", one that killed a police officer in my home town. His handgun fell out of his belt, and went off when it hit the floor, killing him with a shot to his abdomen. It landed on the hammer, and the gun fired. The Safety was "ON".

"The ONLY Safety on a gun that Works is YOU." :shocked2:
Paul's Eleventh Commandment of gun safety. :hatsoff:

Naw I knew you wasn't. I just failed to reply to the right post. I just was making a last wag. If you feel confident leave it capped, if not, uncap it. Simple as that. I can say one thing if I can't say anything else and that is my rifle, any of them, has never strayed toward a nontarget, ever. So I hunt capped. :grin:

I have never owned a lever gun with a safety, I guess all of mine are pre 80's. They all only have half cocks for safeties. Come to think of it I havn't even looked at a new model lever gun in a long time. Next to my flint, I love my levers.

It's a crossbolt safety. So, when it's on the trigger slams into the crossbolt before it can hit the firing pin.

Most guys take them out. They even make a kit to do it.

Really. I don't think I'd take it out if I had a new one. Well, I didn't know they started doing that. I usually just get what I need from a catalog and don't get into stores much. If I do, I don't handle any new guns. I guess I'm content with what I have. Except for the kit gun I'm going to buy. Didn't even need to convince the wife, I just told the boy and let him tell her. :grin: