gain twist barrels

I built what was going to be my first and only build the stock had the barrel chanel and ramrod chanel and that was it I used all hand tools including a brace and bit (except the tang bolt i cheated ) I did it because I wanted a good PRB gun for hunting and I wanted to build it for myself.the gun came out pretty good and it shoots great problem is now i want to build another one.

so I always wanted a 45 and I was thinking of a gain twist barrel as I would probally want to shoot small conical along with prb from this particular gun if i build it.

A gain twist does Nothing for RB accuracy. Its intended for shooting bullets. The rat of twist, and the increase in rate of twist varies with the caliber, and bullet you want to shoot in it.

A Gain Twist barrel can shoot a RB, but you will probably have to reduced powder charges, because of the shallower grooves required to shoot bullets accurately.

IMHO, decide if you want a bullet gun, or a RB gun. Don't mix the two. You are entitled to your opinion, and how you spend your money, however. :thumbsup:

this gun would be 90% a bullet gun if i wanted to shoot precision PRB I will shoot my 54 it has a GM 1-70twist.
however if i felt like plinking with a light load then i might shoot some prb from it read about gain twist and it looked like a way to go

Check out colerain barrels website. He has a nice paragraph or two about gain twist rifling.

A faster rate of twist will let you shoot bullets, and also let you shoot light loads for round ball.
For many years, even centuries we have been trying to get one barrel to do many things.
Shoot bullets, round ball, shot, arrows, grenades, whatever.......it still won't work.
You have to make a choice which way you are going.
Old Ford

I used to shoot several gain twist rifles, though breech loading doubles rather than muzzleloading. I never owned one, but an elderly family friend had a huge collection of English and German doubles when I was a kid in high school and college. He liked shooting but couldn't handle the guns much, so he drafted me to shoot them. Aw shucks.

Anyway, he always referred to his gain twist guns as "express" rifles. His explanation is that they were designed to shoot short conicals at higher velocities rather than long conicals at slower velocities. He didn't like them much, feeling they sacrifices terminal performance in a vain search for flatter trajectories.

All that aside, I'd consult with your chosen barrel maker about twist rates. There's enough mallarky about twist rates on the web to satisfy any politician.

yea i am getting the barrel from colerain if I do it.

well see part of your post is why i was thinking of doing it I will be shooting a short conical from it if i decide to build this way.

I may just go with colerains standard 1-56 twist
still not sure.

I find consolation in the fact that the original Hawken rifles were 1:48, and apparently so were a lot other rifles in that era.

In my experience with TC 1:48 barrels, the biggest limitation on their use with patched round balls happens with a looser patch. Others explain that they have shallower rifling for use with conicals, and that's the problem. I tend to believe that, because when I use a tighter patch the groups settle right down.

If the Colerain has deeper rifling than the TC, I'm betting that will accomplish most of what you're looking for, but I'd sure call them first and confirm.

The argument about gain twist rifling has been going on for centuries. Nomally it concludes with the fact that there is no advantage at all to be gained by a gain twist rifling. Almost if not all the commercial barrel makers will agree with that fact. It sounds good but never seems to prove out that way.

not real conserned about prb as i have a great shooting prb gun
the gun will be more for conicles however the more i read i don't think i can use the conicle i want with a gain twist the lee Real bullet actualy gets cut by the rifling when it is loaded I don't think that will work well with gain twist. did alot of reading today. also found the subject has been gone over and over on this forum

Chuck E said:

...the lee Real bullet actualy gets cut by the rifling when it is loaded I don't think that will work well with gain twist....

Click to expand...

I bet it wouldn't matter with the engraved conical, because even though the rate of twist is changing, the spacing of the lands and grooves isn't. I haven't measured, but there's only something on the order of .01-.05 of the top driving band that actually touches the rifling as you seat the REAL. And that will be the same all the way down the bore.

I dunno enough about gain twists to say anything more. I've never owned one or shot one as an adult, and I certainly was handed a lot of opinion as a kid. Back then I didn't care. All the old guy's big guns were really neat, and they went bang. Just as often as my skinny body could stand to pull the triggers! :rotf:

Chuck E
The subject has been gone over and over on almost all the forums. I made a gain twist rifling guide once. The barrels made no difference in accuracy or velocity than a straight twist. I sold it to another guy and he said the same. I still have some photos of the rifling bench and guide in my albums.

:thumbsup: thats about sums it up for most kids
heck if it goes bang and hits the target still pretty good today

One thing that gain will do that constant pitch will not do is that with the pitch of rifling changing all the time, an elongated bullet will remain tight in the rifling all the way to the end of the barrel. Of course a bit of choke will do the same thing. I will say that if it was the way to go all of us pulling rifling would be cutting gain twist. When I made up my rifling machine I could have made a carriage with a sine bar on it to drive the primary sine bar. Could cut any pitch or any gain with the same machine.