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How Do I Know For Sure a Load Is Seated?

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Josh Smith

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Hi Gents,

This is something I really have no clue about, and it's become a bit of an obsession as I do like by barrels to not be ringed.

Since I got the tighter patches to start working, there will be times when, after firing and even with swabbing, that I'll seat a ball, then give it a firm push and it'll move past a grime ring or something and come to rest.

Then I'll have things happen - like yesterday I was shooting my T/C, it didn't feel like the ball seated all the way, so I gave the ramrod a couple taps with a small gunsmith's ballpeen hammer. Pulled it out and the rubberized ramrod had stripped a bit of rubber due to the metal fitting pushing up on it.

I obviously need to speed up getting a new, good ramrod for that one. :idunno:

In other words, I'm obsessed with seating the ball as hard as I can with hand pressure and the under-barrel rod, though I do plan to get a range rod soon. (This is something I was initially against, preferring the "Swiss Army Knife" utility of a muzzleloader, but I do see the benefits now).

I do have my rods marked.

Does it sound like I'm too obsessed with this? I'm under the impression that any airspace at all is a very bad thing. Or would say, 1/4" or so of airspace accidentally left not hurt anything?

Thanks,

Josh
 
We call it seating pressure.
It's another variable that can effect accuracy. Like all variables you want to maintain consistancy. It's a feel, something that's just learned with experiance. I was never really concerned because I had the confidence that I was doing things properly. But I got together with a buddy and a bathroom scale, by placing the butt on the scale and just loading with him watching we found I push about 60# each time, :idunno:

For your delema I'd suggest loading a clean barrel with your normal charge, you'll be able to get it in place without any crud in the barrel, then mark your rod (like you said you have already done) and just use that mark as a guide,,load to the mark and forget it.
that's my 2 cents and all I got ta say about it.
 
Josh, what I do when marking a ramrod for a certain load is to seat the ball normally, in a somewhat clean barrel, then give it a little whacking to make sure it's all the way down. I'm not talking about forcing it down so hard that I'm crushing the powder, just two or three quick whacks with the ramrod. If it doesn't move by doing that, then you can be assured it's seated properly, with no airspace under the ball. Then I mark the ramrod. Of course, it goes against accurate shooting to smack the balls with the ramrod tip, but I only do this when I'm marking the rod.

Now, with a properly marked rod, if you find that it stops short and you do need to whack the ball to meet the mark, you probably need to adjust your cleaning techniques. Maybe put a little more emphasis on swabbing the breech area. If you swab properly between every shot, I would think it's impossible to get a crud ring. I'm thinking you are just obsessing about this, and if you mark your rod as I've suggested, you can trust your mark. With a swabbed barrel, you should be able to push the ball down to your mark without whacking or pounding with a hammer. Bill
 
Hi Gents,

Thank you.

I'll modify my technique just a bit to more closely match what you folks are saying.

Necchi, as you say, I think it's just an experience thing and I need to practice.

One more thing if I may: When swabbing a bore, is it acceptable to use a bore swab, or is it better to use a patch? Whenever I buy a new cleaning jag, it usually comes with a brush and swab, so I've got a few of those laying around.

Or does it crud up too quickly?

Thank you very much!

Josh
 
Patch an a jag, the angles of the jag ribs cause the patch to bunch up on the pull stroke and remove fouling.
I use a .22 cleaning patch damp with spit, once down and back, no more.(every shot)
A bag of 22 cleaning patches are all the same thickness and size, another variable isolated because of consistancy.
 
necchi said:
Patch an a jag, the angles of the jag ribs cause the patch to bunch up on the pull stroke and remove fouling.
I use a .22 cleaning patch damp with spit, once down and back, no more.(every shot)
A bag of 22 cleaning patches are all the same thickness and size, another variable isolated because of consistancy.

Thanks!
 
I don't swab between shots. I think it causes more problems then it fixes. I have stated to carry a small spray bottle of denatured alcohol and I wipe the frizzen and pan out after 15 shots or so. But not because it stopped firing, just because it looks dirty. A normal day for me is 25 to 30 shots but I am not a target shooter just a for fun shooter, so what do I know? Of coarse for hunting you don't shoot enough to need to swab either, so there you are.
 
ebiggs said:
I don't swab between shots. I think it causes more problems then it fixes. I have stated to carry a small spray bottle of denatured alcohol and I wipe the frizzen and pan out after 15 shots or so. But not because it stopped firing, just because it looks dirty. A normal day for me is 25 to 30 shots but I am not a target shooter just a for fun shooter, so what do I know? Of coarse for hunting you don't shoot enough to need to swab either, so there you are.

I get no crud ring, because I swab between every shot. A spit patch and two dry patches. Patches are cheap.

I want every shot to be consistent. I sight the gun in with a clean bore. I hunt with a clean bore. Always the same. Nothing changes, and my loads slide down the same every time with the same pressure. It's easy to feel the ball seat.

Common sense Josh. This is an example I was talking about. Having to pound the ball down should have giving you a red flag you're doing something wrong. Think.
 
necchi, holy cow -- .22 patches for a quick swab? What caliber are you shooting?
 
.54, and they fit and work just fine for the swab. :wink:
Too small for the real cleaning regime. But all I wanna do is keep the bore condition the same shot to shot. If you don't do something, every shot deposits more fouling. More fouling changes the patch to rifling contact and bore pressure.

Sure you can get 2-3 shot's off just fine at short range (25-50) and they'll seem real close, esp off hand when the human wiggle opens the group anyways, but I like one hole groups.
 
Capper said:
Common sense Josh. This is an example I was talking about. Having to pound the ball down should have giving you a red flag you're doing something wrong. Think.

Hi Pete,

Yessir, this is common sense.

I was using a bore swab to swab it out - just seeing how it worked. Not too well, and I'm going back to the patches. I was doing one wet and one dry every three shots, but I think I'm going to change that to every shot, depending upon what I'm doing.

When I tapped it with a hammer, it wasn't because it wasn't seated - it was because I thought it wasn't seated and was obsessing over just a little airspace.

So what I'm doing wrong is being O.C.D. about it. I go through a phase of how to make everything perfect in anything I do. It comes after the familiarization phase but before the phase in which I feel truly comfortable.

Thanks,

Josh
 
You oughta be able to feel the ball bottom out and the mark on your ramrod for the load you're shooting will verify it.
 
I always put an indent in my short starters so they will fit over the ramrod end and allow me a solid surface to push against.All of my ramrods are marked for depth as a check. :hmm:
 
Buy a good Range Rod and mark it with masking tape for empty. Anything above that mark means something is down there. Some folks use different colored thin electrical tape for more than one charge indicated on a single Range Rod.

It's really easy to "feel" when the load hits "bottom" when you're using a Range Rod. My ramrod is more for show than for "go".

Dave
Fellow A-R sufferer!
 
WhenI seat a ball, I put the heel of one hand on the rr, and cover with the other hand, and put most of my weight on it. I do this every time, and know that it's consistent. You will get over the obsessing as you get more confident.
 
Putting any part of your hand, or body in front of the bore when loading a PRB or bullet down onto the powder IS DANGEROUS. That is how you lose parts of your hand, and fingers. Yes, it happens.

Use the "Monkey grip" when loading that ball down the barrel, that is, turn your palms away from your body, and grab the rod with your 4 fingers only. DO NOT wrap your thumb around the rod, as the jag can tear that thumb off your hand, if there is a cook-off.

Think about it: If something suddenly moves or burns your fingers, your autonomous nervous system Automatically OPENS those fingers, and pulls your hand away. BUT, If you form a closed fist, with a closed thumb, the initial reaction to movement is to TIGHTEN the fist, with the thumb putting more pressure to balance out the strength of the 4 fingers. By the time you realize that you have a "cook-off", its too late, and your fingers, or thumb, are already gone.

CLEAN the bore between shots. That way you can feel the PRB going down the barrel smoothly, and you don't NEED a lot of MUSCLE to push the ball down onto the powder. Your two inverted hands, should grab the rod about 6-8 inches apart, depending on the width and strength of your hands, and the action should be a continuous motion without stops or jerks, to run the PRB down to the MARK on your rod. If you clean your barrel between shots, that Mark will be a constant reference for you to know that the PRB IS NOW sitting on the powder charge( provided you remembered to put the powder into the gun, FIRST! :idunno: :rotf: :grin: If you didn't, welcome to the Honorable Society of Dryballers! :blah: :surrender: :hmm: :thumbsup: :hatsoff: :hatsoff: :bow: )
 
I guess I wasn't clear. I ALWAYS run a moistened patch down between shots.
They're my hands.
 

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