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load for a .54

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Yes, I know, but if a little more is within safety and comfort limits, why not? It flattens the trajectory, extends the range and increases retained energy, what's not to like?

I pretty much agree with that POV. However, at the beginning of this thread I discussed a .54 hawken 1/48 that I had passed on to another hunter. He used that same rifle with an 80 grain load of 2f and a .530 ball to take down a mature bull elk.

I started out thinking of my minimum load for deer to be 90 gr in a .50 cal and for elk 110 to 120 in a .54 for. My own experience and my first hand observations of other hunters success has pretty much got me moving down the scale.

My point being that regardless of what works out with the Kodiak, even if it seems a bit light compared to your usual, it's probably going to be more than enough for your neighborhood deer.
 
The amount of "flattening" of the trajectory is measured in tenths of an inch! With a .54 caliber ball, you can't HOLD or shoot that difference at 100 yds, using iron sights, or even a scope sight on most guns.

What the heavier loads do ADD is recoil, and that simply is NOT needed with a ball that weighs 230 grains or so. Keep the velocity down where it won't loosen your teeth or cause a flinch. 70 grains is More than enough powder- either 2F or 3F-- behind a .54 cal. PRB to take any deer, or Elk, IMHO. Just take a look at the hunting forum here and go through back posts to see the successes that members have had using these " Light" loads to kill deer and Elk. :thumbsup:
 
Sure wish we could edit our posts all the time. The 70 gr is right, but this is not how I wanted to word it. It was two thoughts in one.

"70 gr will knock them the manure out of them."
 
Makes sense to me if the gun can handle it and the stock design is OK the recoil might not be a problem.

My first 54 was a TC renegade 1 in 48 inch twist

.535 ball 15 thou patch and 120 grs or FF is what I always shot. It was accurate and hammered deer.Recoil was not bad either. I wish I never sold it.

My current GPR has a different design stock and I'm currently using .535 balls 90 grs FF and .018 patches but its got a slower twist barrel.
 
paulvallandigham said:
The amount of "flattening" of the trajectory is measured in tenths of an inch! With a .54 caliber ball, you can't HOLD or shoot that difference at 100 yds, using iron sights, or even a scope sight on most guns.
Then why not fall back to 50 grains? That will certainly kill a deer, the recoil is minimal, it's cheap to shoot, it won't destroy much meat, etc., etc.

What the heavier loads do ADD is recoil, and that simply is NOT needed with a ball that weighs 230 grains or so. Keep the velocity down where it won't loosen your teeth or cause a flinch.
You think 80 grains behind a round ball in a .54 double rifle weighing 10 pounds causes objectionable recoil? Well, not all of us do.

Spence
 
You didn't say what gun you have? You said it has a 28" barrel. I have a Hawken style gun with that barrel length, and it weighs 7 lb 11 oz. A 32" barreled GPR is under 10lbs. Have you weighed your gun?

80 gr of 3F with a .54 ball is probably equal to a .300 mag. Not a light recoiling gun.
 
marmotslayer said:
My point being that regardless of what works out with the Kodiak, even if it seems a bit light compared to your usual, it's probably going to be more than enough for your neighborhood deer.
My usual is 80 grains of 3F and a .600" ball in my 20 gauge flintlock fowler which weighs 8 pounds. That's the only gun I've used on deer for the last 12 years. I expect the double will be very similar but with less recoil... smaller ball, heavier gun.

I like to hit them a little harder than is necessary, and that has worked out very well for me. Dealer's choice.

Spence
 
Capper said:
You didn't say what gun you have? You said it has a 28" barrel. I have a Hawken style gun with that barrel length, and it weighs 7 lb 11 oz. A 32" barreled GPR is under 10lbs. Have you weighed your gun?

80 gr of 3F with a .54 ball is probably equal to a .300 mag. Not a light recoiling gun.
It weighs a tad over 10 pounds.

Perceived recoil is an individual thing. I've always had a high tolerance, so I've never given it much thought. A well fitted stock, a heavy gun, experience and knowledge about shooting heavy charges all make it a sort of non-issue, for me.

Spence
 
George said:
Thanks to all for the info, it sounds like good stuff. All my experience with larger caliber rifles has been a .54 caliber Green Mountain barrel with 1:70 twist. I've found that one to be very accurate over a wide range of charges, from 40 grains 3F to 110 grains 3F. All my rifle barrels have been slow twist and tolerance for a wide range of charges seems to be characteristic of the type. That's what I was taught decades ago, and it has seemed to be true. It seems obvious, contrary to what I was taught, that many guns with 1:48" twist will also handle heavier charges with good accuracy.

In 1989 I was invited to go with a friend and his friend, both smokeless hunters, on a moose hunt in Alaska. Pretty heady stuff for an eastern country boy used to shooting squirrels. In high anticipation of the trip I bought a Kodiak Mark III double rifle in .54. It is sort of designed for heavy conicals, so I worked up a load for the left barrel of a 425 grain Buffalo Bullet over 110 grains of 3F. Moose medicine. Before I finished working up a load for the right barrel I got word that my friend's friend didn't want a black powder shooter on the trip. Hecky durn. I put the rifle and the 2/3 box of Buffalo Bullets away and haven't fired it since. It's a fine rifle, and I've decided I'd like to use it in some of my deer hunts, but with round ball and more moderate loads. That's why I'm looking for info on loads for the 1:48" twist.

KodiakA.jpg


Our deer season opened today, will be in effect for 15 days. I hunt on my own small farm, in scattered woods lots. It wouldn't be good to be out there working up loads right now, might make Bambi nervous, so I'm hoping to get it done after this season but before the late muzzleloader season Dec. 11. So, talking is better than shooting, right now.

Spence

I believe this is what he is using, a double rifle. But still why waste powder if you don't need 100+ grains . . .
 
123.DieselBenz said:
But still why waste powder if you don't need 100+ grains . . .
I guess that touches on the different philosophies we shooters have. In general, I sight my guns in for the unexpected long shot, and I figure the trajectory all along the way. I always know what the longest practical distance is. In order to maximize that, to make my point blank range as far as practical, I shoot heavier charges. Heavier charges as determined by my guns, my needs, my shoulder.

I think many shooters fail to realize the advantage that approach has and the significant handicap they build for themselves by sighting their guns in for too short a range. Even with lighter charges that is the way to go, and I've always been mucho puzzled why more don;t figure that out.

Spence
 
I use 110 grs of 2f in my late Lancaster, it kicks a little, but I got used to it. The 90 gr loads were not as accurate, and if I backed it off to 80, it got even worse. The more powder I used the better it shot. So I guess it's still your call.
 
great thread :hmm:

I would suggest to anyone that believes backing off to 50gr on a 54 rifle is still shooting flat,
please, sight in for zero at 50 yards, then shoot same point of aim with 90 or what the heck, 70gr and see if the trajectory is only 10ths of an inch different :bull:

Its not on my 54 rifle with 1:66, so I must be doin somethin all wrong :idunno:
 
George said:
123.DieselBenz said:
But still why waste powder if you don't need 100+ grains . . .
I guess that touches on the different philosophies we shooters have. In general, I sight my guns in for the unexpected long shot, and I figure the trajectory all along the way. I always know what the longest practical distance is. In order to maximize that, to make my point blank range as far as practical, I shoot heavier charges. Heavier charges as determined by my guns, my needs, my shoulder.

I think many shooters fail to realize the advantage that approach has and the significant handicap they build for themselves by sighting their guns in for too short a range. Even with lighter charges that is the way to go, and I've always been mucho puzzled why more don;t figure that out.

Spence


I'm puzzled why you asked for loads if you plan on shooting your magnum loads?

I could understand if you were asking for Elk or Bear loads, but deer are easy to kill.
 
Capper said:
I'm puzzled why you asked for loads if you plan on shooting your magnum loads?
I didn't ask for specific loads. I asked if anyone successfully shot heavy loads in a 1:48" barrel. I think I made it abundantly clear that I had never fired roundball from a 1:48" barrel... I said exactly that... and that I wanted to know if I would be wasting my time trying to work up a heavier load for one.

Magnum? What do you shoot, Capper? The only load info I've heard from you is that 70 grains will knock the manure out of them. Is that your load? Or less, because you don't want to knock the manure out of them? If you shoot 70 grains in a .54 and you think I'm shooting magnum loads with 10 more grains, then I'm the one who is puzzled.

Spence
 
You mentioned shooting up to 110gr loads. I got the impression you wanted to work up to that with the double too. My bad if that's not what you meant.

I shoot 70gr of Swiss in a .50. I tried up to 90 gr of Swiss and saw no advantage for deer.
 
Capper said:
I shoot 70gr of Swiss in a .50. I tried up to 90 gr of Swiss and saw no advantage for deer.
I'm thinking 80 grains for the double. If that will shoot, that would do the job for me. That seems no more a magnum load for a .54 than 70 grains does for a .50, to me.

Matter of fact, Lyman Handbook gives a velocity of 1443 fps for my 80 grains 3F G-O in a 28" barrel .54, but gives 1587 fps for 70 grains 3F G-O in a 28" barrel .50. That's a 10% hotter load for your .50 if you were shooting Goex. But you are shooting Swiss. Considering that you've made it plain in another thread that your Swiss is unquestionably 15% hotter than Goex, it's obvious that your load is 25% hotter than mine.

You better cut back some, Pete. Deer aren't that tough to kill, even in the Rockies. :)

Spence
 
Some of the Muley's get pretty frisky.


I didn't say I didn't shoot a good load for deer. I hate to chase down the rascals.

I do know that more powder and I lose accuracy, or maybe my bum shoulder has convinced me of that. :grin:
 
When I took a deer with my .54 I was using PRB and 65 gr FFG at 80 yards and she was layed out where I hit her.I used the .54 to see how'd it do but I prefer to use the .58 with minie ball and 65 gr FFg and took deer at 85 to 100 yards and didn't chase a one. Anything more then that then its wasted powder and chance to injure my shoulder again.
 
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