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BV

40 Cal.
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A friend of a friend asked me if I would be interested in building him a Northwest Trade Gun. It sounds like a good way to help pay for my next build but I started thinking about what liability I would bear if he blows himself up through his own fault or mine.

I'm not looking to start a business and don't want to take out a liabilty policy to build this guy a gun. I'm thinking I should probably pass on this. What do you guys who build guns for others think?
 
If you are serious about the liability, contact:

JOSEPH CHIARELLO & CO., INC.
31 Parker Road
Elizabeth, NJ 07208-2118

They are recommended by Brownells. It will probably take a number of rifles to pay for their General Liability policy.
 
You can use a Contract form that requires the buyer to defend and hold you harmless for any damages arising out of the making of the gun. You have to have, or at least separate consideration being given for this agreement( OFFER, ACCEPTANCE, & CONSIDERATION are the 3 necessary elements of most contracts), and it should therefor be drafted by you attorney, so that the buyer protects you from claims by his family, heirs, others for whom he is responsible to support, and his estate as well as from him. You want him to pay your legal fees, as well as other costs of your defense, AS THEY ARE INCURRED,if you have to defend any claim arising from him, or through him. If your attorney is not familiar with this, send me a PT.

The potential liability for you arising out of a gun you build to shoot Black Powder is minimal. However, you might have to incur costs to have the blown-up gun tested to prove that someone loaded Smokeless powder in the barrel instead of BP.

Savage Firearms stopped making their "Modern" bolt action, Smokeless Powder MLER BECAUSE they failed to recognize that some shooters don't pay attention and fail to push the bullet all the way down onto the powder, creating a bore obstruction. The barrel then ruptures, and the shooter is injured. Surprised???

How many new BP shooters have you seen "short-start" a PRB in their barrels, and begin to prime the gun to shoot before someone stops them? As my club's lawyer, I used to stand at the firing line and loading benches and watch how New shooters to the club loaded their guns, and watch to see if they had marked their ramrods( range rods) to indicate that the PRB was all the way down on the powder charge. If not, I would politely talk to them about this safe practice. I stopped more than one guy who had short started his PRB in the barrel, and was going to fire the gun. We taught our Range officers to keep an eye on the new guys to prevent them from ruining their guns, and/or hurting themselves as well as others. One a new shooter demonstrated an awareness of safe loading procedures, and showed he followed them, we turned our attention to other matters. :wink: :thumbsup:
 
Buy your barrels from a reputable barrel maker.
The barrel maker will be on the hook not you.
If your really that scared make the purchaser sign a note that you are not liable for any barrel failure since you never made the barrel and have no control over who loads it or what they load it with. Also put on the note what the standard service load is for that firearm.
PS-- never sell a firearm to an attorney or anybody who says the word attorney or lawyer.
 
jerry huddleston said:
PS-- never sell a firearm to an attorney or anybody who says the word attorney or lawyer.

Reminds me of one of my hunting pards, whose bushplane charter fleet included a Cessna 206 on amphib floats. On the concrete ramp, the combo of the floats and the tires under them put the passenger doors so high off the ground they had to use a small roll-up set of stairs to get passengers in and out.

Problem was, their home-built stairs didn't have two sets of handrails, to make room for gear coming in and out of the planes, too.

One charter passenger was a lawyer and proud of it and asked my pard in a very pointed way if he was worried about liability if someone fell.

My pard stared him right in the eye, waited a beat and answered:

"Nope, cuzz we shoot cripples." :rotf:

The lowyer blanched, and very carefully used two hands on the one rail to get his widebutt onto the plane. :applause:
 
Actually, under the Strict liability Claims, everyone in the "chain of sale" from the manufacturer, to the "retailer"( builder in our case), is liable. That is why I came up with a Contract form to require the Buyer to Defend and hold harmless my clients. Disclaimers of Liability are not recognized in all jurisdiction( and are based on local State Tort Law, not Contract law). I use them, but don't rely on them. I found that Plaintiff's lawyers are less "interested" in taking on a lawsuit when they find their client has signed a comprehensive Defend and Hold Harmless Contract, with consideration stated in it. In effect, The contract makes the Buyer the gun maker's insurance company. :shocked2: :hmm: :grin:
 
If you want to get a feel for how Thompson Center sets a stage for the liability issues, download and read their "Hawken" muzzleloading rifle manual.

They warn the buyer about almost anything remotely connected to usage of their product. Warning does not prevent suits, but provides the "I told you so" element.

Because of their sales through a third party (Wholesaler to retailer to buyer) they are in no position to get any waiver/indemnity forms signed.
 
A commercial gun maker like T/C can't get those contracts signed. But custom gunbuilders, and gunsmiths can. I represent one gunsmith who simply will not do certain modifications to guns for customers that he feels simply are not well trained and practiced enough to be able to safely handle a gun so modified.

He will do modifications to my guns, for instance, that he will not do for policemen, because of rules within their departments restricting how light a trigger pull they can have on a handgun. But, the real reason he won't reduce trigger pulls for cop guns-even their private ( Non-duty) firearms is that he doesn't see them practice enough to be safe with a gun with the lighter triggers.

When you build custom guns for people, you get to pick and choose for whom you do the work. No one I know personally makes very much money doing this kind of work. Most have another income- a pension from another job, or their wives work, or both.

The idea of buying liability insurance to cover a possible claim is beyond consideration: the policies simply cost too much, if you can even find a company that will write the policy.
 
If I was worried about my buddy blowing up a rifle I would a) not build him one and b)do everything in my power to talk him out of getting a muzzleloader in the first place. Maybe take away his car keys and make him wear a hockey helmet too. Maybe I'm just too picky about my friends :idunno:
 
I asked a reputable gun maker the same thing, and was told about how you have been, that I worry too much. He said if it would make me feel better, have them sign a release and then don't drill the flash hole (or vent). Let them do it.
 
Thanks for the replies. I don't know this guy from Adam and only talked to him for a few minutes about this gun. I'm going to go ahead and build it and make up the same kind of info sheet about safety and loads I have gotten from NSW and Chambers.
 
Well this problem took care of itself. The guy thought the cost of parts plus $100.00 was a fair price because of the "exposure" I would get from him being seen shooting the gun. I explained to him I am not interested in the gun building business and prefered to be "exposed" to cash. In the end I politely suggested he should invest his $100.00 in tools and build the gun himself.

Dealing with customers all the time must really suck. I'm not quitting my day job anytime soon. :grin:
 

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