shallow rifling and balletts

Ive got an older traditions Frontier 50 cal with a 1:66 twist that I bought used. the previous owner only fire heavy conicals with a heavy powder charge in it and he had it for many years.the rifling is so shallow that it almost doesnt exist. my best groups with maxi balls is about 4 inches at 50 yards. I tried power belts and got one inch at 50. round balls get me around 2- 2.5 inches at 50. Im wondering if a ballett would be a better choice ( Ive never actually seen one).

questions:
1) with that shallow rifling would a ballett be a better choice?
2) any body got a picture of one?
3) where can a feller get a mould for them? ( too expensive to buy often)

after this up coming deer season I plan to turn that barrel into a smooth bore but its too close to make any drastic changes just yet

Buffalo Ballets were made in both round nose and hollow point versions having slightly different grain weights.
While they have been known to shoot accurately out to about ~70+ yards from many rifles having a 1 in 66" twist, no one can predict just how well they will shoot from your Pioneer with its shallow rifling. With some rifles they will shoot better using a wool wad or over powder card underneath to act as a gas check.
Then there's the very similar Hornady 240 grain PA Conical which a Google search shows to be less expensive per box of 50.
AFAIK there aren't any [inexpensive] molds for any conicals resembling Buffalo Ballets. The Lee REAL bullet is a popular conical mold. The Buffalo Ballet isn't a really tight loading conical measuring about .51 while the Hornady's are labeled as being .512.

The Hornady PA Conical:



The Buffalo Ballet:



The Buffalo Ballet .32 Hollow Point:

Hey there.
Sir, in all probability if it's got that slow of a twist then a tight patched round ball is probably your best bet.

As a passing thought, the rifling at the muzzle may be very worn. Maybe, just maybe, the right load with a minie might not care much about muzzle wear.

Has anybody ever tried a minie in that slow of a 50 cal twist?

Something is wrong here. With that Rate of Twist, the rifling should be deep- .010-.012". :shocked2: :hmm:
Have you scrubbed out the barrel with a good bore brush, and lead solvents? It may be this friend bought into the belief that barrels have to be " seasoned" to shoot right, and hasn't properly cleaned that barrel since he bought it! :idunno: :redface:

You don't Season " STEEL". Only cast iron skillets are " seasoned". Barrels have not been made from iron since the 1840s, and probably earlier than that. :nono: :hmm: :thumbsup:

yea its been cleaned real good, bore is almost like a mirror. when I bought it, it was loaded. I never weighed the slug that I pulled out of there but it was a huge maxi and there was 140grains of powder behind it. this guy shot it like that all the time for years. the only thing I can think of is that heavy load wore down the rifling faster than it ever should have :idunno:

I'm impressed with the accuracy you're getting from that slow twist and the conicals, even short ones. I don't know how the previous owner managed to get by with long conicals. In my experience with slow twists, the shorter conicals didn't do too badly at 50 yards, but the further you go past that, the worse the groups. My 54 cal Lyman GPR for example, will do 3" or so at 50 with a Ballett, but won't keep them on the target paper at 100.

If you're looking to cast 320 grain LEE REAL conical may be the shortest you can get. On the other hand, true hollow based minies ought to shoot very well in spite of the slow twist. I've had terrific luck with the LEE Improved Minie in 54 and 58 caliber. I'm assuming the advantages of the "Improved" design- larger meplat on the nose and slightly thicker skirt for larger charges- would hold true for 50 caliber.

I don't know what to tell you about the shallow rifling. I'm not familiar with that particular gun, and can only speculate that the previous owner's cleaning regimen resulted in wear at the muzzle, and in fact the rifling might be fine further down the barrel.

I've used "Ball-ets" made by Buffalo Bullet company in my old Mowrey 50cal percussion BP. The Ball-Et being a short, heavy slug-type of projectile, but one that 'usually' stabilizes in twists to 1-in-66".

FWIW I got phenomenal accuracy with them from my Mowrey 1:66" shallow-rifling arm, but I had to tune them with my powder charge. I believe I ended up around 75grs FFFg.

If anyone is interested, I have 3 boxes I'll let got for $20 plus shipping, as I just don't hunt anymore with 'cap guns' ...

I think Im gonna try some .495,.498, and .500 balls and see what happens. back in the saw grass and palmettos 40 yards is long range so what Ive got would work, I just wanna know that im ready for longer if it ever come up

Paul is right here in that slow twist"round-ball" barrels will have deeper rifling. In the case of Traditions about .010 to .012 deep.
If your rifling is this shallow it would seem to indicate excessive use (or missuse) so as to be "shot out". In my opinion the most advantageous choice would be to either bore to smooth, or to have the rifling freshened to a larger ball size.

Toomuch
..........
Shoot Flint