New guy with basic questions

I suppose that THAT would be true but a ".50 cal patch" ought to work just fine. It might have gotton bunched up somehow?

flyfish said:

Can I assume not all cleaning jags and patches are not created equal?

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Well, yes, but...

It's more than likely that the single patch you thought you were shoving down the bore was actually 2 or even 3 patches thick. Those pre-cut dry cleaning patches have a real bad habit of sticking together in layers but looking like single patches.

It's also possible that the lands on your .50 were a bit taller than your son's unmentionable POS, so what works on his won't work on yours, and thinner patches along with a different jag are necessary. But I'd vote for No. 1 above.

I only have limited actual experience from 20years ago but I question the "warm water" vs. hot. I was taught years ago and still see most people around here using the hottest water they can get to clean their barrels. It will heat the metal and help it to dry quickly. I'm getting back into muzzleloading again and hope to be shooting soon. I've also heard many recommendations of vegetable oil instead of any petroleum based oil for the bore.

There are cleaning patches and there are shooting patches.

Cleaning patches are soft, fairly loosely woven cotton patches often made out of the same material that brief's are made from.
They are absorbent and work well for their intended purpose.

I've found that for me, shotgun cleaning patches are much too big even for a .54 caliber. Although they go down the bore pretty easily they tend to bunch up and bind in the bore when you pull the cleaning rod back up the bore.

The .45 caliber pistol cleaning patches seem to work great even in my .58's.

Shooting patches on the other hand are usually thick, tight weave cotton and they make poor cleaning patches.
They must be larger than the ball diameter but should not be so large that they extend too far above the ball when it is rammed.
If they are too large they can wrap around the tip of the ramrod while the ramrod is moving down the bore. Then, when you pull the ramrod back out it will sometimes grab the patched ball and drag it with it. A patch that is about 2.6 times the ball diameter is about right.
Either square or round shooting patches work equally well.

Most folks have found that fairly tight patch/ball combination's shoot the most accurate groups. That's why you will see folks recommending a .490 or .495 diameter ball patched with a .018-.020 thick patch.

This ball/patch combination will need a short starter to get it started into the muzzle.
A short starter looks like a ball with two projecting dowels. The short dowel is for getting the ball/patch into the bore. The long dowel is for moving the ball/patch down the bore so the ramrod can easily be used.
Usually by the time the patched ball is moved the 3 inches or so down the bore with the long dowel it becomes quite easy to ram down to the powder.

Use any quality rust preventative gun oil to protect your bore and lock.
Birchwood Caseys Barricade tends to dry so it doesn't contaminate a fresh powder charge if the gun is loaded without wiping it first. Of course wiping the bore does assure that there will be nothing to contaminate the powder or to mix with the fouling to form hard tar.

A very good suggestion to use is after you have cleaned and oiled the bore, store your muzzleloader muzzle down, butt up.
Any extra oil will then drain out of the gun rather than accumulating in the nipples flame channel or flash hole.

You want a Jag for cleaning that is at least .010" SMALLER than the land( bore) to land diameter of the barrel. Some prefer even smaller dimensions.

Cleaning patches are made from thin, cotton flannel. DO NOT USE the thick patching ( Mattress ticking, denim, pocket drill, linen, muslin, etc.) that you use for wrapping the ball.

A Cleaning patch should be MUCH larger than the caliber related patch you use around the ball. I use 3 inch square flannel patches I buy by the 10,000 count for my .50, 20 ga. fowler, and 12 ga. shotgun.

A cleaning jag has a flat face, and at least 3 grooves cut into the side of the jag, to catch the fabric and pull it OUT of the barrel.

You want the jag small enough in diameter than when the cleaning patch is pushed down the bore, it easily slides OVER THE CRUD on the lands, rather than push it down to the bottom of the barrel where its next to impossible to remove without soaking the barrel with soap and water.

By contrast, a LOADING jag is often desirable if its very close to bore diameter. When wads are used, in either a rifle or shotgun, the close fit of the loading jag insures that the Edges of the wad are pushed down firmly against the side of the bore.

May I suggest that you take a look at the Track of the Wolf web site, and visit the pages that show the jags they have for sale. The pictures are excellent, and the typed descriptions are a fast way to get an education on which jag is used for what purpose.

Its not rare to find that NO jag you can buy is small enough for a particular rifle barrel. They are made of brass. Just chuck the shaft in a hand drill, and use a file against the side of the jag to reduce its diameter, by spinning the jag against the file. Its not that hard to do. If you have a drill press, its even easier. The Grooves cut into the jag are deep enough to allow you take quite a bit of metal off the diameter without ruining the function of the jag. :thumbsup:

paulvallandigham said:

You want a Jag for cleaning that is at least .010" SMALLER than the land( bore) to land diameter of the barrel. Some prefer even smaller dimensions.

Cleaning patches are made from thin, cotton flannel. DO NOT USE the thick patching ( Mattress ticking, denim, pocket drill, linen, muslin, etc.) that you use for wrapping the ball.

A Cleaning patch should be MUCH larger than the caliber related patch you use around the ball. I use 3 inch square flannel patches I buy by the 10,000 count for my .50, 20 ga. fowler, and 12 ga. shotgun.

A cleaning jag has a flat face, and at least 3 grooves cut into the side of the jag, to catch the fabric and pull it OUT of the barrel.

You want the jag small enough in diameter than when the cleaning patch is pushed down the bore, it easily slides OVER THE CRUD on the lands, rather than push it down to the bottom of the barrel where its next to impossible to remove without soaking the barrel with soap and water.

By contrast, a LOADING jag is often desirable if its very close to bore diameter. When wads are used, in either a rifle or shotgun, the close fit of the loading jag insures that the Edges of the wad are pushed down firmly against the side of the bore.

May I suggest that you take a look at the Track of the Wolf web site, and visit the pages that show the jags they have for sale. The pictures are excellent, and the typed descriptions are a fast way to get an education on which jag is used for what purpose.

Its not rare to find that NO jag you can buy is small enough for a particular rifle barrel. They are made of brass. Just chuck the shaft in a hand drill, and use a file against the side of the jag to reduce its diameter, by spinning the jag against the file. Its not that hard to do. If you have a drill press, its even easier. The Grooves cut into the jag are deep enough to allow you take quite a bit of metal off the diameter without ruining the function of the jag. :thumbsup:

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So in Lamens Terms just go to a site or store such as Track of the Wolf and buy a cleaning jag that corresponds to the caliber of your rifle(50 cal, 54 cal, etc.) :thumbsup:

I can't thank you guys enough for all the knowlege you have passed on to me. :hatsoff: I guess it's time for some more shoot'n. I'll let you know how I do.

PS Did I mention that I already started "looking" at new muzzle loaders in catalogs and on the net.
The Great Plains rifle has caught my eye. Does this mean I'm hooked? :shocked2:

That's a start- but only a start. When you get it, measure its diameter with a Micrometer, or calipers, and compare to actual bore diameter of your rifle.

My jag is " Stepped". That is, I have filed the "rings" to different diameter, with the one at the nose being the largest, and each ring behind it being smaller in diameter. This allows the following rings and grooves to catch and hold MORE fabric, where the fabric bunches together more, thereby driving it into the grooves of my rifling to clean out more crud when I pull the patch and jag OUT of the barrel.

Someone may be selling such a cleaning jag: I made this one up myself more than 28 years ago.

When working with a New BP shooter, I will take along my calipers, and my loading and cleaning jags, so that I can show him the reasons I have two different jags, and then show him how I "stepped" the rings on my cleaning jag, and why. Most of the time, this leads to a visit to my home, where we can chuck his new cleaning jag into my drill, and reduce the diameter to fit his bore, and then "step" the rings. It doesn't take a lot of time, is an easy project to do for beginners with little to know experience using any tools, and a fine way to make a friend. :thumbsup:

flyfish said:

Thank you all for all the info you've given me.
It's been very helpful and has reinforced what I kind of knew. Of course there is a bunch of stuff I didn't/don't know.
I knew (from my buddy telling me) that I needed to clean my gun well and right after shooting it. The thing I was not clear on or was concerned about was keeping the barrel from rusting. I was afraid of putting oil down the barrel. I was concerned it would effect the powder and the gun wouldn't go off. From your posts I now see how to take care of that issue. Can I use any light gun oil that is intended to prevent corrosion? Is there any oil I shouldn't use?

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You can use petrolium based oils, but be careful to clean the bore with alcohol before shooting, 91% isopropyl or denatured. Rem oil is popular in the petrolium based oils, some like WD-40. I like Ballistol, it stinks, but is one of the best lubes around. You can even use the stuff on your flyrod.

flyfish said:

I can't thank you guys enough for all the knowlege you have passed on to me. :hatsoff: I guess it's time for some more shoot'n. I'll let you know how I do.

PS Did I mention that I already started "looking" at new muzzle loaders in catalogs and on the net.
The Great Plains rifle has caught my eye. Does this mean I'm hooked? :shocked2:

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Yup! We may even getyou hooked on a flintlock! :thumbsup:

Paul V., your observations about jags bring me to report on my range rod. I shoot 50 caliber in competition, except for the Buckhorn Skinners Squirrel Rifle Championship and the Big Bore match where I shoot 40 cal and 58 cal respectively. My 50 cal range rod has a ball seating jag on one end, and a cleaning jag on the other. In between are two muzzle guards, appropriately facing either end. Some may find this an expensive set up for a range rod. I think it is less expensive than two rods, or recrowning a barrel.

Your comments about reducing the diameter of the inner bands on the cleaning jag make sense. I'll give it a try. Thanks for this tip, and the many others you have shared.

White Fox, in the Peoples Republic of Boulder

Sinner, back in '73-'75 I too used the boiling water.

Started shooting with folks that shot all over including winning at Friendship. Learned that luke warm H2O was just fine. Now have 2 rifles over 25 years old and always cleaned with air temp water, wiped dry and hit with LPS 3 rust preventative. The flinter put 3 shots into 1 1/2" at 100 last month.

Oh, yea. I use the LPS 3 and when ready to shoot just wipe it out and start loading. No alcohol, window cleaner, JP 5 jet fuel, brake cleaner or anything to remove the dreaded petroleum material.

TC

paulvallandigham said:

My jag is " Stepped". That is, I have filed the "rings" to different diameter, with the one at the nose being the largest, and each ring behind it being smaller in diameter.

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I know what I"m doing at the shop tomorrow! :hatsoff:

That's exactly why I joined this forum...to gain further insight from the experience of others. Just shows to go ya that "this is the way!" isn't necessarily so. Do you use a cleaning patch to apply the lps 3?

Congrats on the great shooting!!!

LPS3? :idunno:

Follow the link:
http://www.lpslabs.com/product_pg/corrosion_pg/LPS3.html

Great stuff that. I use it on my car in the winter to keep the salt termites from chewing up the undercarriage. Now I'm gonna use it on my gun too. Food grade and a wax base too. I wonder if it would make a good patch lube.

Has anyone read the MSDS on LPS 3?

Yes, I spray some LPS on a patch and squirt a little in the bore and run the patch in and out. The extra gets pushed out the flash channel. Then take the patch and wipe the outside metal parts.