Looking for a period correct smoothbore - help!

In well managed shops with a couple of employees,

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I'm going to have to get me one of those. :haha:

medic302 said:

Mike Brooks said:

You miss the point. It doesn't matter kits or from a plank. If a full time gunmaker doesn't have at least a year back log it says something about their work, or their lack of advertisement.
Cripes, I can build a gun from a blank in less than 20 hours, but when you have 25 to 35 guns on your list it takes quite some time to get to it.

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holy manure! you can go from a blank to gun in less than 20 hours! am i easily impressed or is that fast!?

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That's probably considered pretty fast. Of course there aren't any bells or whistles on a gun like that! :haha:

laffindog said:

A left hand gun with a right hand lock...how bizzare, never seen nuthin' like that before. How did you come up wth that? I think I'm getting dizzy looking at it.

It doesn't take six months to build a gun but can take that long or longer for your name to come to the top of the list. Much longer if the customer wants "special" stuff like a barrel that has to be custom ordered or a patchbox that has to be hand made and can't be "store bought" etc. Also, for instance, the left/right handed gun above would take me two or three days of just thinking and planning before I ever even start on it. :idunno:

L. Dog

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Why is that so bizzare? It works just fine for the owner, so whats the problem?

I won't tell you how long it took me to build the red Lehigh rifle....

I did one barn gun type rifle a few years ago while I was between outside employment, and got it done in about 3 weeks. However, that definitely ain't normal for me!

I definitely wouldn't worry about resale value. I learned long ago to NEVER sell a gun.

I move guns all the time. Let me tell you, lefties have NO resale value unless you sell dirt cheap. I gotta admit, I have some regrets over some guns I have sold.....but I sure like the ones I have replaced them with too! :haha:

Mike Brooks said:

In well managed shops with a couple of employees,

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I'm going to have to get me one of those. :haha:

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You do know you'll have to pay them, don't you? :grin:

hanshi said:

Mike Brooks said:

In well managed shops with a couple of employees,

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I'm going to have to get me one of those. :haha:

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You do know you'll have to pay them, don't you? :grin:

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That's why I don't have them.

Mike - Surfing around your website I noticed a pre-dominance of 16 ga guns. What is the reasoning behind this - I shoot lots of modern 16 ga and I think they are the perfect gauge, but most of the replica guns I see are 54-58-62 caliber.

Just curious

KHickam said:

Mike - Surfing around your website I noticed a pre-dominance of 16 ga guns. What is the reasoning behind this - I shoot lots of modern 16 ga and I think they are the perfect gauge, but most of the replica guns I see are 54-58-62 caliber.

Just curious

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Most guys I build for like 16's if they are wing shooters. Replica guns are generally mass produced by people who sell guns to the masses that don't know any better. :wink:

Five months a long time? A well run shop should be able to do a custom gun in that time?

That's a bit of an oversimplification. There are "custom" or "bespoke" firearms of varying quality.
Example - I know they are not making MLers but call Holland and Holland - a fairly experienced and well run shop with an appropriate number of employees - and ask them how long it will take for them to make you a rifle or a shotgun. They assign one man to make a particular gun - like a one man shop, he will do everything from start to finish. It will take longer than five months. Wait times are one to three years. For some other shops, five years is not unheard of (Fabbri).
Mike Brooks and others like him produce fine firearms; there will be a wait.
Pete

Just wondering after reading your post, but what have been the build times on guns you've ordered? I'm aware of what's sop at H&H but that's a "whole nuther story" with no application here. Mr. Brooks says he can build one in 20 hours which tells me, again, waiting one's turn at bat is the holdup, not the glacial pace of the builder.

A master of most any craft can work magic in a fraction of the time most of us would take. That's a major component of "skill". the slow are not necessarily the best and the fast are not necessarily the sloppiest. It would take me months to do what a master mason can accomplish in a few days or weeks and there would be no comparison. You can't say a builder can't build a fine gun in just a few months unless you've been there and watched him work. I can state that no human can run a mile in under 4 minutes as long as I don't see him do it. I know, however, many runners have done this. Never underestimate talent, skill and the ability to put them together.

don't quote me on this, but a few years ago at Colonial Williamsburg Gunshop, I heard the gunsmith say there were 70 man hours of work in each rifle. Correct me if I'm wrong. I doubt they were working on one gun at a time. they also said guns were built on order. guns usually weren't built on speculation. If an old-time gunsmith built a gun, someone was waiting for it.

Hanshi: I have a TVM fowler which I like very much. It was on the shelf when I was looking so there was no wait. That is as close to custom as I have at this point.
I do have an order in with Mr. Brooks for a fowler made custom for me. I expect to receive that sometime in early 2012.
About Holland and Holland -

If a builder can't deliver you a custom gun under 5 months or so - assuming he's not really busy - run, don't walk......

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Now it's a whole "nother" story? Holland makes only about 70 guns a year. Surely, even given the nature of some of their pieces, they could make one in five months. But demand.....if I am number 220 on their list, I am going to wait three years.
Mr. Brooks and others like him have waiting lists also even if they are not H&H.
Pete

Pete D, the H&H folks are bloody REDCOATS! They kinda do things, well, strangely. I can't take advantage of "unspoken for guns" as my lop is so short. I always have to wait in line, but much over a year? No, I don't think so. I'm not concerned about PC/HC so I don't have to take time to study books and talk research. That helps. :haha:

I'm not concerned about PC/HC so I don't have to take time to study books and talk research. That helps.

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Why are you even posting here in this thread then? The original poster is looking for a PC Smoothbore.

"Why are you even posting here in this thread then? The original poster is looking for a PC Smoothbore."

with some it seems as though it can be an uncontrollable obsession, particularly as the knowledge of the topic diminishes,the need to comment increases, there must be a formula of some sorts, like the Davenport formula, maybe this is the Wannabe formula :idunno:

Pete D. said:

Five months a long time? A well run shop should be able to do a custom gun in that time?

That's a bit of an oversimplification. There are "custom" or "bespoke" firearms of varying quality.
Example - I know they are not making MLers but call Holland and Holland - a fairly experienced and well run shop with an appropriate number of employees - and ask them how long it will take for them to make you a rifle or a shotgun. They assign one man to make a particular gun - like a one man shop, he will do everything from start to finish. It will take longer than five months. Wait times are one to three years. For some other shops, five years is not unheard of (Fabbri).
Mike Brooks and others like him produce fine firearms; there will be a wait.
Pete

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Yep for very good guns it is worth the wait. But for run of the mill guns like the ones from ERA one waits 2 years or more and STILL gets a sows ear.....if they get anything at all!

Get a gun from North Star Wet, TVMuzzleloading or Tip Curits or M. Brooks if you can afford it. But stay as far away from ERA as you can......you may never ever see the gun even after waiting years and years!

Ah, see. There goes the petard!

:hmm: I would have never guessed that.

It is not uncommon for a one man shop to fall behind particularly if an unfortunate personal event falls upon them this has been seen with several buiders in the past,some have survived others have not, the thing is in how they deal with the issue and their customers and re-setting realistic goals.Sometimes they hold on with hope and denile past the point of no return and their name becomes mud.