Bedford period?

I read that the Bedford rifles were made almost to the 20th Century in percussion. When did they really start to emerge in the flint period? Most are droopy looking and have fairly long barrels up to 46" if I'm not mistaken.

Since they seem to be late flint rifles is it safe to assume that most ranged from about .36 to .45 caliber? Would .50 caliber be an exception and if you build one should it be in a "C" or "B" weight?

-Ray

Those that I've seen were all straight barrels from about 32-40cal. The earliest that I've seen had some low relief carving, but not particularly artistic. The stocks are very thin everywhere, and shooting a 50cal with a Bedford butt would not be pleasant....that and the fact that they point like a plugged sewer pipe. They are best "just looked at".

Yup, straight barrels and very heavy. At least 12lbs and up. They have so much drop that when I look down the sights my face doesn't even touch the stock! :shocked2:

Most of the Bedford's I have seen are straight barreled and extremely ornate, and very artistic. They have a big drop in the stock, which facillitates keeping the head straight up when sighting. I am not sure about the weights on some of them, but my .36 with a 3/4" ATF, 40" long barrel weighs 6.5 pounds. I hardly think one could call them boat anchors and wall hangers only.

They existed in both flint and percussion and the percussion held into the late percussion era. Some were made in .50 caliber, so one with a 42" straight 1" ATF barrel will not be that heavy boat anchor as has been described.

I was referring to antique Bedfords, not contemporary.

Mike Brooks said:

I was referring to antique Bedfords, not contemporary.

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So was I. Have you read "Gunsmiths of Bedford, Somerset and Fulton"? I built my rifle from that book.

flintlock62 said:

Mike Brooks said:

I was referring to antique Bedfords, not contemporary.

Click to expand...

So was I. Have you read "Gunsmiths of Bedford, Somerset and Fulton"? I built my rifle from that book.

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I have never seen an original bedford that weighed as little as 6.5 lbs. All I have seen had massive heavy barrels and probably for good reason, that drop in the stock would be painfull to shoot unless you have a heavy barrel to absorb the recoil.

Mike Brooks said:

flintlock62 said:

Mike Brooks said:

I was referring to antique Bedfords, not contemporary.

Click to expand...

So was I. Have you read "Gunsmiths of Bedford, Somerset and Fulton"? I built my rifle from that book.

Click to expand...

I have never seen an original bedford that weighed as little as 6.5 lbs. All I have seen had massive heavy barrels and probably for good reason, that drop in the stock would be painfull to shoot unless you have a heavy barrel to absorb the recoil.

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If I hadn't loaned my book out,I could tell you the page. Mine is a copy of William Defibaugh (sp). It did have a 3/4' ATF barrel. Most Bedfords were about 13/16" in .36 caliber which would place the weight much under the 12 pounds you described. I am not sure of th original Bedfords you have handled, but I would like to see one of them. Bedfods were of the most gracefull rifles ever built.

Well, I have never ever seen antique bedfords with 13/16" barrels ever. All the guns I have seen have been at gun shows.

As for "ornate and artistic", I don't care for poorly done relief carving and an over abundance of gaudy inlays. :shake: These were made after the Golden Age and definitely less well balanced....err...not balanced at all unless laying across a log. :blah:

I take it that a .45 Bedford with a 13/16" barrel would not be too heavy but what about balance? I guess I COULD use a "B" weight for a .45 about 44" long for balance even IF a lot of traditionalists got their supporters in a knot over it. :rotf:


-Ray

SimonKenton said:

I take it that a .45 Bedford with a 13/16" barrel would not be too heavy but what about balance? I guess I COULD use a "B" weight for a .45 about 44" long for balance even IF a lot of traditionalists got their supporters in a knot over it. :rotf:


-Ray

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I guess everyone has their own opinion on the Bedford. Maybe it's because I don't have taste. I am sure that some will disagree with the poorly done carvings and such. I have seen fine examples and I am sure too that James Whisker will agree with me. Maybe he has no taste either. I do know they had a 120 year span from flint to percussion. Mine balances well. A swapmed barrel will not be PC, but do what you think fits your needs. If you want a swamped barrel, why not go for a Lancaster?

IIRC, Whisker is from Bedford, so there may be a bit of prejudice there.

As for taste, different strokes for different folks. I prefer early guns, but really don't care for the lines of a Lehigh. Likewise, I don't like silver wire or lots of inlays.

As for the OP, a straight barrel will be more correct if that matters to you. A smaller width straight barrel will be lighter, and keeping the bore size as large as possible will help keep the weight down. The narrow, tight crescent buttplate on a Bedford will necessitate that you shoot it off your bicept, so keep that in mind when choosing caliber.

I DO like the locks and patchboxes found on most Bedfords.

Flint or cap, a straight barrel would pretty much put them in the 19th c. I think the locks are very graceful.

Not that my Bedford is anything special but for those members who haven't seen a Bedford style here is my attempt to recreate one.
It is convertable for Percussion or Flintlock.




This is a .45 caliber 13/16" X 42 GM barrel Bedford based somewhat loosley on a W. Defibaugh.

Based on "The BEDFORD COUNTY RIFLE and Its Makers" weights of the originals shown are:
.44 cal = 10 lbs, .42 cal = 8 lb, .44 cal = 10 lb, .50 cal = 10 lb, .42 cal = 10 lb, .42 cal = 10 lb, .42 cal = 10 lb, .38 cal = 7.5 lb, .40 cal = 8 lb, .36 cal = 5 lb, .36 cal = 9 lb, .34 cal = 10 lb, .38 cal = 10.5 lb.

If I want something sleek slender and graceful actually a Rupp comes to mind. I've seen some real beauties made along those lines. A 42" Golden Age profile "B" weight in .40 or .45 might be just the ticket. :hmm:

-Ray

Hello Boys- I have quite been reading the post- as for myself I personally can't think of any other Rifle more Artistic than a Bedford. I think that some of the best Maple ever cut was used in Bedford Stocks. No other County anywhere has a better looking Lock, as most other Counties Locks a all close in design. I have an original Bedford 1/2 stock with all silver trim- inlays- patchbox- guard and Butt plate, magnificent engraving and the Barrel is 13/16ths. The wood looks like it is on fire with stripes. I have seen many originals with long slim barrels as well as heavier barrels. I saw an original recently with 33 Sterling Silver Inlays- flintlock for $15,000. and almost sold the house to buy it- a Masterpiece in every way- 15 stripes to the inch- I will tell you this the rifle on any table of rifles wouldn't play second fiddle. The gunsmiths of Bedford were as talented as you could get, Peter White for one, so if yall see any unwanted Bedfords floating around - send me an email.TGP

TGP,
FYI, Peter White wasn't originally a Bedford 'smith(Emmittsburg?), and he later moved to Uniontown in western Pa. Some of the best of the Bedford 'smiths would have been William Border, John Amos, Jacob Stodenour, and William Defibaugh. I've handled some of the very best of these, flint, percussion, carved and not....

Similar guns were made in Huntingdon, Somerset, Cambria, and Fulton Counties at the least. I'm not particularly taken with any of them. Yes, Daniel Border was in Somerset County for at least part of his career.

Clear up a point here- Peter White was a Uniontown smith no doubt, but later did work in Bedford Co. I have seen 2 rifles made in Bedford that he did, as many Gunsmiths work in many different Counties like Joseph Mills. Many of the Sheetz worked Virginia- West Virginia and Ohio. Bedford Co. was graced by many Gunsmiths from other areas. After attending many KRA Shows over the years I have seen and handled many of these beautiful rifles and looking forward to Pittsburgh this year- The Great Pinyone

For a Contemporary Bedford Rifle you ahve done a real fine job, I would be proud to own it. Glad to see some one make a rifle like that. Most builders today seem to do Lancaster rifles, Issac Haines would be proud-TGP