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Browning A Barrel and Parts Help

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I seem to be having a problem with the laurel mountain forge brown.I started last night to see how this stuff works,I read the instruction but still seem to run into a problem,must be someting I am doing wrong.First I did remove any old blue from the small parts first, before I get to the barrel,started with the trigger guard and the tang.I applyied the chemical about 7pm last night,this morning did remove any scale with some 000 synthetic steel wool,seem the part are a dark gray in color,no brown to be seen anywere.I went ahead with a second coat to day was wondering how many coats will it take before I start seeing a brown color or am I rubbing to hard between coats?
I have used the hot browing back in the 80's and had excellent result,but I read a lot of good reviews on the LMF
so I thought I give it a try.
 
lonewolf -

My experience with LMF browner has been very good. The following is a checklist of things that might be causing some trouble:

Polishing - The browning job will only be as good as the polishing job. The parts should be polished bright with wet-or-dry paper wrapped around a hard backer, such as a file. Start with coarse paper (220 grit is usually enough) and finish with fine paper (400 grit is enough).

Applying solution - Avoid rubbing the solution onto the polished metal; just wipe it on with a long, even stroke. Too much rubbing back and forth will cause a layer of metallic copper to be deposited on the surface, which can retard the browning action. Just swipe it on once, and resist the urge to scrub it into the metal.

Carding between coats - You mentioned using a "synthetic" steel wool. I am not sure what this is, but if it's an abrasive pad, you may be scrubbing the browning off as fast as you're putting it on. Use real steel wool. The grade is not too important. I use steel wool scouring pads, bought at the grocery store.

Number of coats - The parts will normally be gray colored for the first pass or two. It usually takes me 6 or 8 coats to get the depth of color I want. This can vary with the type of steel used. Sometimes, if I am having trouble getting the browning to "take," I apply two or three coats and allow them to rust without carding between passes. This usually gets the browning started, then I can proceed with the remaining coats, with carding between.

Humidity - I live in south Louisiana, where the ambient humidity is usually pretty high, and we don't have a problem getting things to rust, including roofs, automobiles and garden tools. If you are in a low humidity area, you may need to build a damp box, which is nothing more than a wooden box big enough to hang barrels in, with a water vapor source, such as an old electric coffee pot, in the bottom and a light bulb to raise the inside temperature so that the water vapor doesn't condense on the barrels and parts.

Hope this helps,

Bill
 
You should have a "bloom" of rust on the metal. If you don't you haven't enough humidity and need a damp box. Too much is said about a damp box, take anything, a card board box, put a leaf bag over it and hang some wet rags inside away from the part, and store the box in a warm area.
If you have a "Bloom" you may be carding too much. Forget the steel wool and try terry cloth rags. Just remove the loose rust.
If you have a bloom, are not carding too much but subsequent coats aren't building up, you are putting too much solution on the metal. Just give it a long smooth wipe, that's it! It won't seem like enough but it is. If you are rubbing the bloomed area with solution you are actually removing the existing bloom instead of building it up.
LMF says their product has a degreaser in it. I still clean the parts and wear plastic gloves. :)
 
Lonewolf,

It sounds like the same problem that I was having. I built a simple damp box out of plywood and everything started working great. You could try an expariment like i did with a piece of scrap steel. I took an old coolwhip container and but a block in it so that the part would not touch water. after I applied the solution to the part I put hot water from the tap in the bottom of the container. After 3 hrs the part should be rusted good. Take caution with this method, I would not recomend using it for the actual gun parts as, it has a tendency to condensate water droplets on the part. This will leave a "black" and i mean "black" spot on the metal. This spot will not go away and when you try to card it off you end up with bare metal again, then that spot will have to start the rusting process over again. Needless to say, you end up with a very mottled looking brown. However, what it will tell you is if you are needing more humidity to get the LMF solution to work. The box I built was from a design by John Bivins, and is detailed in the book "Gunsmithing Tips and Projects" by Rifle Magazine, and is available from TOTW. Hope this helps.

Hud..
 
Use real steel wool?Can you use the steel wool like the one I use on the gun stocks let say 000? but I read somewere that this type of steel wool has some oils added to prevent it from rusting.
I may not have enough Humidity, seem right now here in north carolina the humidity is low too bad it was not August when the humidity is high,I think also a box with water would help in rusting more of the brown color.
I did stip the parts to day was not happy with the outcome
I did resand the small parts I was trying to browm,long even coats are not that easy when it comes to the trigger guard.
I will give it another shot and see what happens,another problem I am having is that all my major tool are at my primary residents up north,down here for the winter limited me to the tools I dont have here.
Thanks again to all that replyed I am sure I will have more question it been a long time since I browned a barrel or parts.I did remember back in the early 80's doing a couple of kits but did use the hot method browning that turn out great.
 
All of the steel "steel wool" I've tried had oils or waxes on it to keep it from rusting and I've had problims with cold blueing and with Plum Brown due to it.

I have learned to remove these oils from the steel wool before using it and have never had a problem if I de-oiled it.

Some of these blueing and browning processes seem to be more sensitive to the presence of oil, but I agree with the other folks about this posts problem.
Not enough humidity. :boohoo:
 
I have used LMF with great success. Since I have never browned gun metal I first tried it out on an old Daisy Red Ryder. I did this in early December when the humidity where I live is lower. I too had a greyish color and made the mistake of rubbing it where the sight and loading port is to try and get the parts wet. Don't rub it in, I got the copper coloring in this area. I used steel wool in those ares to remove the copper color. I have read to use a coarse material like blue jean rags which is what I used. I rubbed the metal down with the rag and reapplied the solution. This took about a weeks worth of time. I came out with a deep dark brown barrel and receiver.

I then had confidence to brown my GPR barrel and metal parts. It took about a weeks worth of work. I put a coat on the parts before I left for work in the morning and then came home and carded them and applied another coat after work. I did not mess with any humidity boxes, this probably makes it take a while longer to work but I was in no hurry. I became really impressed with how well and easy this stuff works, my barrel and parts came out with a deep even brown color, no blothcy or thin areas.

Don't get discouraged, this stuff is pretty much mistake proof and I think you'll be happy with the end result.
 
lonewolf -

My experience with LMF browner has been very good. The following is a checklist of things that might be causing some trouble:

Polishing - The browning job will only be as good as the polishing job. The parts should be polished bright with wet-or-dry paper wrapped around a hard backer, such as a file. Start with coarse paper (220 grit is usually enough) and finish with fine paper (400 grit is enough).

Applying solution - Avoid rubbing the solution onto the polished metal; just wipe it on with a long, even stroke. Too much rubbing back and forth will cause a layer of metallic copper to be deposited on the surface, which can retard the browning action. Just swipe it on once, and resist the urge to scrub it into the metal.

Carding between coats - You mentioned using a "synthetic" steel wool. I am not sure what this is, but if it's an abrasive pad, you may be scrubbing the browning off as fast as you're putting it on. Use real steel wool. The grade is not too important. I use steel wool scouring pads, bought at the grocery store.

Number of coats - The parts will normally be gray colored for the first pass or two. It usually takes me 6 or 8 coats to get the depth of color I want. This can vary with the type of steel used. Sometimes, if I am having trouble getting the browning to "take," I apply two or three coats and allow them to rust without carding between passes. This usually gets the browning started, then I can proceed with the remaining coats, with carding between.

Humidity - I live in south Louisiana, where the ambient humidity is usually pretty high, and we don't have a problem getting things to rust, including roofs, automobiles and garden tools. If you are in a low humidity area, you may need to build a damp box, which is nothing more than a wooden box big enough to hang barrels in, with a water vapor source, such as an old electric coffee pot, in the bottom and a light bulb to raise the inside temperature so that the water vapor doesn't condense on the barrels and parts.

Hope this helps,

Bill
Click to expand...


Lonewolf,

Heed Bill's above advice,

He is the author of "Recreating the Double Barrel Muzzleloading Shotgun" (Shumway Publishing), but is too modest to say so, and has more experience in metal finishes than any of us could ever hope to obtain. Sorry Mr. William, if I "outed" you.

Regards, YMHS,
Terry
 
Steel wool can be washed in alchole to remove what oil is in it to keep if from rusting on the shelf.

Woody
 
Zonie
How do you remove the oils from the steel wool?
Click to expand...

I'm not as patient as woodhick.
Although I tried brake cleaner, acetone, MEK, and lacquer thinner they didn't seem to do the job. That's why I think they apply some form of wax to the steel wool.
I got my best results when I pour some muratic acid (hydrochloric acid) into a plastic pan with some water. About a 50/50 mix and dump the steel wool in.
After about 5 minutes, when the stuff starts bubbling, I remove the steel wool and rinse it off with water and leave it in the hot Arizonie sun to dry. (If you do this, figure out a way to protect it from humidity. It will start to rust within a few days if you don't.)

Here in Arizonie, there are so many swimming pools you can find Muratic acid in your local drug store (just a couple of $ by the gallon).
If you live in the cold areas, if there is a swimming pool supply place in your town, they should have it.
 
I just finished browing my new flint with this stuff and had the same problems i even call track of the wolf and talked to them.

here's what i learned and did
first it takes lots of moisture for the browing to work.

i went down to the store and got 2 tinfoil pans for cooking turky in.
in the first pan put your freshly coated parts in then put this pan in a large ice chest or cooler and set next to a heater this will give it the humidity needed. I put mine in at 9mp and at 6am pulled them and light steel wooled them and repetted for three hours or until desired color

then neutrulize with bakeing soda and water mix.

as for the barrel i put water in the pan and i had a pice of white pvc pipe 6 inches longer than the barrel and with a pice of wood1x6x12 with a wire through it i suspended the barrel in side the pipe and put the pipe straight up and down in the pan for the same amount of time

this worked perficly

try it cant hert ........the key is humidity
:results: :imo: :m2c: :redthumb:
 
Listen to rolo, try one small part with the rough cloth and forget the steel wool. That eliminates having to worry about oil in the steel wool, removing too much rust, etc.
About the damp box. More is more. The Biven style that was in Rifle magazine is state of the art but you can cheat by just putting a small lamp in the box. The barrel doesn't take up much room. You can also hang some wet rags from a hook, obviously away from the metal. I put a pan under the rags. The heat and rags will really create a lot of humidity. I usually do about 6 to 7 coats. I agree, round parts like trigger guards are difficult, there is a tendency to stop which creates an uneven coat. Most folks leave the browning as is but a drop, just a drop, of linseed oil or true oil can be applied as a finish(after the soda wash) to create a more "evened out, glossly" effect. This creates something you'll see in the stores but the true artistic craftsman usually shuns the oil treatment.
 
I stip the small parts yesterday ,then apply the LMF again this time I did squeeze out the the pad,so that it was just damp,the trigger guard is starting to turn brown dark in some spots more then others ,but it seems to be getting there.I think a couple of more light coats will seem to get a deeper brown,that is what I am looking for.I did notice a little streaking in the color,will see what happens in a couple of days .I like that idea about the barrel in the plastic pipe idea,funny I do have some Pvc laying around.My next question I would like to refit the steel butt plate to the stock seem there are a couple of high spots on the top of the metal butt plate ,any idea how to remove some metal ,remember I am limited to my tools,don't want to put deep scratches in to the metal,I have my palm sander with me and my dremel tool ,all hints will be appreciated.Man I miss my tools :hmm:
 
A file and sand paper followed with a good buffing with 000 steel wool will make that butt plate look just fine.

Woody
 
a heavy coat of rem oil will darken the brown even more after you finish the final coat




nv26011.jpg
 
Guy's come across another question,the stock ramrod that come with the Renegade as a kit gun ,seem to work O.K. but the wood is something that will not take a stain in color .I would like to darken it as dark as the the walnut stock ,oil stains seem not to work any ideas what I can use to darken this ramrod?
 
You may think this is nuts but try this.Get some shoe polish and put it on a rag and rub the heck out of the ram rod. Shoe polish is mostly wax and won't hurt you barrel inside. and it will usually take on wood that won't take stain. :results:


Woody
 
This may sound crazy but for the guys that use this LMF on there barrels and parts ,onces you gotten the color you want and wash with baking hot water and baking soda,then apply a good grade oil to the barrel and parts and set aside for a couple of days.I was wondering if at a later time let say you use some 0000 steel wool on the barrel will the finish come off,seem to me the LMF chemical is real easy to remove if rubbed hard enough.
I can remember using BC hot brown on a long barrel back in the 80's had to use heat, then apply the chemical ,the harder you rubbed with steel wool the better the finish looked.? ::
 

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