Josey Wales 2 part topic

In the movie The Outlaw Josey Wales, starring and directed by Clint Eastwood, I noticed a flaw.

After the redlegs torch his house, kill his family, and leave him for dead; Josey recovers a revolver from the ashes. It clearly has a loading gate.

Part 1, Am I correct in guessing that revolver shouldn't have a loading gate, and just be a Cap & Ball revolver?

Part 2, Later in the movie Josey is carrying 2 pistols on his hips, 1 in his belt, and one a shoulder holster. What are those revolvers suppossed to be?

Well the Spegetti westerns which were set during the Civil war too, Clint is shown loading cartridges, in at least the "Good the Bad and the Ugly". So they didn't care very much for PC. S&W had the patent rights to the first cartridge revolvers and Colt had to wait before they could produce cartridge pistols. Forgotten exactly when that was but I believe it was after the war. It's been a while since I've watched Josey Wales but I only remember him using early Colts. I need to watch it again next time it's on.

Movie people don't like using percussion revolvers. They'd much rather simply drop in standard .45 Colt blanks than reload a percussion gun.

There are publicity shots of Josey Wales with percussion Walkers. Caps and all, but in the movie, he's shooting cartridge conversions.

If you look on the Cimarron Arms website, they have Clint's revolver on there. It's the "man with no name" conversion revolver. Kirst makes a converter for cap and ball revolvers including the Walker. Problem is, you have to cut away part of the shield to make a port so you can load it with your cartidges.

I liked in Pale Rider where he kept changing cylinders.

In Pale Rider he had a Remington Army converted to cartridges (it could have even been an old one...). It was the type of conversion that did not have a loading notch, and the cylinder has to be removed to load and unload. He also had a .31 cal pocket/police model that was converted. Most certainly an old one, and probably converted to .32 rimfire, which so many were.

I have not-so-good photos of those two guns.

I think the observation is valid that the first revolver he uses in the movie should properly not be a cartridge conversion. The rest of the revolvers in the movie seem to be the correct C&B models.

Stophel said:

Movie people don't like using percussion revolvers. They'd much rather simply drop in standard .45 Colt blanks than reload a percussion gun.

There are publicity shots of Josey Wales with percussion Walkers. Caps and all, but in the movie, he's shooting cartridge conversions.

Click to expand...

Except and the end when he goes after "Red Legs" with the snap-wince-snap-wince, et-al with those two Walkers, then holsters them both and then comes out with two smaller guns, and repeats the snap-wince close-ups in the eyes, and then holsters them both and then pokes him with his own sword!

Dave

Part #2 answer: I think that the actual models vary throughout the movie, depending upon what was clean and serviceable during that day's filming. I believe there was a scene where I saw the muzzle(s) sticking-out from the bottom of the leather if I'm not mistaken.

He had Walkers in his hands with the scene with the sword towards the end of the movie.

I'll have to watch it again soon, as I have a DVD copy of it that my son gifted me for my birthday!

Dave

I was going to post a bunch of the photos, but just go here: http://www.imfdb.org/index.php?title=The_Outlaw_Josey_Wales

to see some of the pistols, both percussion and converted, used in the movie.

:wink:

Is there a similar site for "Pale Rider"?

Don't know, but I wouldn't doubt it. I found this with a Yahoo or Google search for "Josey Wales Walker".

:wink:

And so they do:
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php?title=Pale_Rider

Great website, Thanks

AK Mike said:

Great website, Thanks

Click to expand...

+ 1 on that! :hatsoff:

Pale Rider is an adaptation of one of my favorite books of all time, Shane. Eastwood changes some characters, but the story is the same.

Ozark,
Funny you say that because the first time I saw Pale Rider, I told my wife it was another
version of Shane.Right down to the ride off at the end.

From a film-making standpoint, most of the movies you will see taking place in the pre-cartridge era, especially those involving percussion revolvers; Cartridge Conversions, or less obvious blank conversions are often used for the bulk of the shooting, instead of actual percussion weapons. Most armorers and gun conscious film folks recognize that it takes too long to load the principal guns and their back-ups for multiple takes; thus the actual percussion revolvers are usually kept for close-up only.

Have a look at the Dragoon (or Walker, can't remember) that Duvall carries in Lonesone Dove, same deal. Or the guns used by Jeff Bridges in "Wild Bill".

This is a trend that began long ago, and the situation with Trapdoor Springfields is a great way to sum it up. In the early days of prop weapon houses, most outfits bought up bulk surplus items from places such as Bannermans. By the 1920s and 1930s, most of the H'wood armories had hundreds and hundreds of cheap, .45-70 Trapdoor Rifles and Carbines. You would not believe how these were used, cut into everything from Arab muskets, to Pirate boarding pistols; you name it. Some of these guns were cleverly disguised with "flint locks" welded onto the actual lock.

For instance, most of the "muskets" used in John Wayne's 1960 epic, "The Alamo" are M1873 Springfields with brass flintlocks welded on. A good friend of mine in the prop business acquired many of these John Wayne "flinters" from a weapon house auction years ago, all numbered and papered to that movie and others.

In Josey Wales, most of the Muskets, are un-changed 1873 Trapdoor Rifles (with WWII leather slings), with the notable exception of the one carried by Cheif Dan George, an honest to God P53 Enfield with cap on the nipple. 1860 Army Conversions and '72 Open-tops are seen throughout.

-Sam

I have an old Daniel Boone B&W talkie, made around the 1930's. In the seige of Boonesboro scene, they made no attempt to disguise the trapdoor as anything. It shows clearly in one shot of a coonskin cap settler shooting. Not even attempt to make it look like a flinter.

I was puzzled in Josey Wales, at the beginning, when he digs a pistol from the burned ruins of his home. It is already a cartridge conversion looking colt. And that sharps he used to cause the Missouri Boat ride, was that style Sharps even made yet?

zimmerstutzen said:

I have an old Daniel Boone B&W talkie, made around the 1930's. In the seige of Boonesboro scene, they made no attempt to disguise the trapdoor as anything. It shows clearly in one shot of a coonskin cap settler shooting. Not even attempt to make it look like a flinter.

I was puzzled in Josey Wales, at the beginning, when he digs a pistol from the burned ruins of his home. It is already a cartridge conversion looking colt. And that sharps he used to cause the Missouri Boat ride, was that style Sharps even made yet?

Click to expand...

Funny thing is I picked Wales out of the DVD pile at random yesterday and watched it again for the first time in years. Yes, that is a Cartridge conversion he pulls out of the ashes (although it could be a '72 open-top which is not a true conversion), with no ejector rod or housing. He only uses that pistol in that particular scene. George and the indian girl both use 1860 conversions at the end of the trading post scene.

Likewise that is not a percussion Sharps in the Missouri boat ride scene, but rather a post-war Sharps.

On the same subject of H'wood faking black powder or percussion guns - dozens of films in the '40s and '50s made use of 1873 Colt Single Action Army "Peacemaker" revolvers, with fake loading levers welded to the frames and barrels to make them look like cap and ball pistols. The result is a gun that looks vaguely like a Remington. "The Horse Soldiers" with John Wayne shows plenty of these if I remember right.