Home-Made Shot Cups

Am experimenting on rolling some index card shot cups for my 20ga. I'm sure I'm not the first to think of this. Has anyone else tried it and if so, what was there success? I've found that one of those cardboard tubes that dry cleaners put on pants hangers is perfect to roll the index card. Make cuts and fold the ends like a coin roller and drop a tad of glue and let it set up works pretty well. Also, some medical "paper" tape secures the tube with a pretty thin wrap.

I'm cutting them to hold the same amount of shot that goes into an 80gr powder measure. The ends are scored to allow for some peel back when the shot exits the bore. Raining cats and dogs today. Maybe Monday for the live fire.

Is this a waste of time?

Dan

Dan, I have been using index cards too, for 12, 16, and 20Ga.. I cut them to a length, so that when I roll them around my dowel, they are almost exactly two ply, do the coin fold as you do, but I don't use any glue or tape, After the fold, I turn the dowel over place the fold on my bench, and give the dowel a few rap's with a rawhide mallet, grab the cup still on the dowel and roll any pointy folds that stick out further than the o.d. of the cup. I carry them in a buckskin sack, inside my pouch and haven't had any problems with them coming apart. It does help tighten the pattern. Matter of fact, going out this afternoon to shoot some trap with the 16Ga. :grin: . Good luck

Do a search Sir, loads of imfo on them and yes they can make a good differance.
I found just a couple of wraps of normal printer paper does the trick.

Brits.

Hey Dan,

I worked with card stock a bit, but in 12 gauge rather than 20. The material worked, but my biggest hassle was keeping from crushing my creations in my hunting bags. One more bulky thing to pack and take care of.

This is going to sound pretty fiddly, but with very little practice, it worked surprisingly easy. I found high bond typing paper to work as well as card stock in pattern tests. It was also lots easier to work with.

I ended up carrying it pre-cut to size but left flat. And I used the end of my ramrod as a "mandrel" for rolling. It's close enough to bore size to count, and you've got it along anyway.

Just cut the paper long enough for about 1.5 trips around the bore and tall enough to protect your shot plus about bore diameter extra along the bottom, if that makes sense. Mark the paper where it's going to be tall enough to protect the shot from the bore walls.

In the field I just wrapped the paper loose around the ramrod end at the mark, with the "bottom" of the cup up above the rod end. Press the joint against the rod and fold all that extra down over the rod end.

It will hold together well enough to let you start it down the bore, and if you have a felt cushion wad already started in the bore, there's no problem with the shot leaking out the bottom as you add the shot and overshot card and seat the unit down the bore. And that paper flies free at the muzzle every single time. I tried folding over the top of the paper some once the shot was in and before adding the over-shot card, but it didn't seem to make any difference.

Don't know if my writing was up to the job, but if you followed the jist of it, you'll be pretty happy with the results while saving yourself a whole lot of home-manufacturing and field-carrying issues. Unless you're just looking for things to occupy your time at home, a course! :wink:

Thanks for the replies. I'm working on completing them so they are already loaded with shot in my bag. Sort of like a speed loader. Just tear off the top and ram it home and cover with an over shot card. I may try bond paper as well as it is certainly easier to work with.

Appreciate it.

Dan

i use Post It notes wrapped around a 5/8" dowel rod for my .62/.20

While my experiments with home made shot cups did indeed work, I was never able to 100% permanently eliminate the occasional "slug effect" where the paper did not burst or fall away and the entire shotcharge went through the patterning board in the shot cup like a slug.

I finally decided as hard as it was to get a Tom in the sights of my Flintlock, I did not want to risk missing him because of a "slug effect" and ended up getting the barrel jug choked...and its turned out to be one of the best ML decisions I ever made.

The money I'd already spent for repeated range trips...gasoline, powder, wads, shot, etc, had already exceeded the cost of getting the barrel jug choked in the first place.

I've used shot charges rolled in common newspaper for over fourty years and like the results or I wouldn't still be using them. I use a 5/8 doll rod(for 12 ga) for a mandrel and tie the ends with common kite string. I just ram the whole charge down with out opening, the newspaper is broken through by the shot.

is there a good illustration on doing this process anywhere? I have a general idea but have a 25 lb bag of #8 I would like to try out or better yet trade for some #4 or 5s and use them to hunt with I have a 62 cal gm smooth bore I had orignally planned to load it like a tc smoothbore illustration in my book?

I use printer paper wrapped around a dowel, I use a trapezoid shaped piece of paper, roll it around the dowel, glue the seam fold the end over and score the cup so it will fold open when it leaves the muzzle, then I put in a shot charge an hold it all down with some paper over shot wads and lube the whole thing. I have not had any slug on me using this method.
I carry them around in a small plastic container with a foldopen lid.

I'm not very traditional with my materials. For really stiff cups, I use index cards and computer printer labels.

I use a label that is 10cm by 8.5cm (I kinda like the metric system) and I cut a card 9cm by 8.5 cm. Lay one side of the card even with the base of a label and roll the two over a dowel so it finishes against the sticky portion of the computer card. This gives me a really stiff roll that will resist crushing and none of the sticky is exposed in the end. If you want a less stiff roll, you can use bond paper.

Fold the base like a coin roll and glue if you want or leave it alone as the cushion wad will hold it closed if you ram both at the same time.

For the top, I pre-score half a dozen 1/2 inch cuts at the top and let the over shot card hold everything in. When it exits, everything seems to come apart readily with the 12ga. Haven't tried it yet with the 20!

I've used the same method with wax paper instead of card stock or bond paper and it gives me a water resistant tube for powder storage. Fold the ends over and glue with your powder charge inside. Tear off one end, pour your powder and save the paper for your fire later or use it for extra wadding if you want. I've let one float in water for a few minutes and tore it open to see if it was dry. It flared perfectly.

Dan

Would these paper shot tubes work with steel shot which is required in some areas where I live? My old shotgun is about a 1950 model and was never intended to shoot steel shot. Thanks

Paper shotcups will work with steel shot, but they have to be much thicker in the walls, to keep the steel from scoring your soft barrel steel. YOu might have to use shirt-backs to make the tubes thick enough for steel shot.

I don't know if I'd trust them against steel. Most likely not. Hey, maybe my method would work with thin beer can aluminum. Roll that around a mandrel with the label paper on the outside. Steel encapsulated in an aluminum jacket,

Too much work! By the time I get the beer drank...I'll want a nap.

Dan

Well, the title may be a bit of a misstatement, as the range session was very impromptu and inturrupted by a phone call that required attention. But, two thing were apparent based on my construction methods.

#1. The remnants of the cups disclosed that the paper keeps the lead from touching the metal.

#2. The cups come apart as designed and the remnants are deposited about 10 yards from the muzzle of the gun, and there appears to be no scorching or burning of the paper, though there is some powder soot present.


The session was conducted at 20 yards and the pattern suggest that based on the discussion earlier about smoothbore squirrel killing distance, the cups didn't offer any appreciable (if any) benefit! The 20 yard patterns were adequate to kill a squirrel or a turkey.

Perhaps I'm unfairly comparing the pattern density of my .62 caliber smooth bore with the pattern density of my .72 caliber smoothbore SXS percussion, but to try and be fair, I used the same shot load I normally use for my 12ga, and that is the amount of shot I can pour into an 80gr poweder measure.

I will try to repeat the experiment again, and this time, I'll reduce the powder charge to 60 grains fffg from the 70gr fffg of today's experiment. I'll continue to use the same shot charge.

The search is not over.

Recommendations?
Suggestions?

A good psychiatrist perhaps?

Dan

You should get denser patterns with the lighter load.

Have you tried 2F? I get better patterns with 2F. Made a huge difference in my .56 Renegade. Made a difference in my .62 also. Never did try 3F in my 12ga.
Can't hurt to try.

Thanks for the suggestion. I have 2f as well, but I really like to carry one powder. I actually believe the majority of woodsmen/pioneers did as well. Even the soldiers who relied on flint smoothbores used one powder to prime and load. It's not necessarily right or wrong...(just lazy).

Ross Seyfried once wrote a very wonderful piece on the muzzleloading shotgun, and his assertion was that today's fffg, was yesterday's ffg in performance. I recall he also made the switch to fffg in his smoothbores based on a lot of research that indicated it was preferred by some pretty savvy shotgunners in the late 1800s.

I'm not an expert. I have too many guns to divide my time with so the flinters and cap guns get about 25% of my time. This is about to change as I'm starting to put the centerfires in the back of the safe, in favor of the "old" ones.

Appreciate your advice and I will give it a try next range session. I'm not set in my ways...er waywardness.

Dan

A lot of people look to justify their own behaviors. Its my understanding that FFFg powder didn't even exist until the later half of the 19th century, so Mr. Seyfreid's comments really depend on which half of the 19th century he's talking about! The Second half of the 19th century also saw the first breech loaders, choked barrels, etc, semi-smokeless powder, cordite, and then smokeless powder, as propellants. Everyone was in the race to get more velocity out of shotguns, and still control the pattern.

However, if you are shooting a cylinder bore gun, particularly one with Flint ignition, you will most probably be better served using FFg powder instead of FFFg. At least, in the first half of the 19th century, and before, there were only two grades of powder- Cannon( VERY COARSE)-- and Musket powder. ( Approx. what FFg powder is today.)

Because its difficult to use a chronograph today to measure variations in shotgun velocities, quantifying the different effects of using the two different grades of powder tends to rely on the end result-- the pattern one achieves.

I tend to agree with Jethro on this recommendation. Try FFg. I found I shot better patterns using it in both my 12 and 20 gauge smoothbores, that are cylinder bores. I have tried FFFg in my 12 gauge, and never could find a load that would work well in both barrels. Because I like the patterns I am getting from my 20 ga. fowler, using FFg, I have not tried FFFg in it. Seems rather pointless, and I have deep memories of the frustration I had trying to get FFFg to work in my 12 ga.

So Paul...are you suggesting that woodsmen, pioneers and soldiers did not prime with the same powder they loaded with, of that given today's choices in powder, it doesn't make sense to do so?

If anything, Ross' articles are interesting if only because of the amount of research he's put into the subject. His contention was that the burning rates of fine powders available at a time when black powder manufacture was mostly in its zenith, were such that today's fffg more closely approximates them, than today's ffg, which is more akin to yesterday's fg and so on.

I'm not trying to "justify" behavior, but to suggest that one can carry a single powder into the woods and get acceptable performance from it. Tayloring a load up or down with powder, or up or down with shot can as easily be done with fffg as it can with ffg.

This became apparent to me when experimenting with fffg in a .54 GPR. One could use lower charges of fffg to approximate the performance of larger charges of ffg. Accuracy did not suffer.

As for using fffg in my Pedersoli 12, ever since I changed from 7.5 to 6 in my shot size, I have gotten 100% reliability on tree rats, but then I'm pretty particular about my shot presentation. Still, top of the tree or somewhere in between, every shot has brought home meat, so the patterns must be adequate. I can't say the same thing about doves as I lost my dove spot before I got my SXS front stuffer.

I don't discount your experience, or your advice. As I indicated in my previous post, I intend to experiment with ffg. So, I'm wondering from where you judged that I was trying to justify my behavior?

Regards

Dan