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Muzzle Loading Archery/Harpoon Guns

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arcticap

54 Cal.
Joined
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Location
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There's a well known Connecticut company named Swivel Machine that makes archery barrels for the Ruger 10/22, as well as guns that fire arrows, harpoons, tranquilizing darts and larger caliber bullets powered by compressed air or blank cartridges.

Because the basic idea has already been proven to work, it should also be possible to shoot an arrow or harpoon type projectile from a muzzle loader.
I know that plenty of people have forgotten that their ramrod was still in the bore after ramming and ended up launching it downrange.
And I believe that there are also some kind of wooden darts that are commonly fired from the modern reproductions of gonnes.

If some thick wadding was put in the bottom of a smaller caliber barrel the gases would be sealed.
The arrow projectile could additionally be wrapped with some leather or other gasket material to keep it stable once loaded inside the barrel.

Even of a larger caliber barrel was used, a thicker arrow or "harpoon" could be used to better fill the bore since a thinner arrow might snap or fracture with a heavy load.
But unless someone has a very good backing for their target like a wheel of hay, there's a good chance that the arrow would get damaged or destroyed upon impact.

It may even be possible to shoot a single short arrow or "bolt" from a C&B revolver barrel. However a safe method for preloading such a projectile into the barrel would need to be developed before the cylinder is loaded with powder and then finally capped. But I think that it could be done safely and would work to some extent.

I suppose that if someone was in a survival situation and ran out bullets to shoot, that making a projectile from available materials would be option.

So what does anyone think about the idea of shooting wooden arrows, harpoons, bolts or darts from the various types of muzzle loading guns, who has ever tried it or would be willing to? :hatsoff:
 
I've seen the SwivelMachine 10/22 contraption online. Their barrel goes INSIDE an aluminum arrow and is fired with a blank. I have not seen their airguns for larger calibers.

The arrow gun seems like a great idea for poachers and bowhunters who can't get in range with their bows, of course if they used one of those they would no longer be bowhunters, they'd be poachers...

I can't think of any other use for it.

If you did try launching arrows with a ML, the arrow would probably be very unstable unless you could figure out how to get the fletching down the bore and keep the shaft centered in the bore at the same time. There is a good chance the arrow would become a bore obstruction too.

I think I'll stick to roundballs for my MLers and bows for my arrows. :v
 
Jethro224 said:
The arrow gun seems like a great idea for poachers and bowhunters who can't get in range with their bows, of course if they used one of those they would no longer be bowhunters, they'd be poachers...

I can't think of any other use for it.

I did mention the following which has nothing to do with poaching, target shooting with muzzle loading arrows/darts or harpooning/fishing with them:

I suppose that if someone was in a survival situation and ran out [of] bullets to shoot, that making a projectile from available materials would be [an] option.

And I wouldn't be surprised to learn that civil war soldiers have been shot with ramrods. How's self defense for a legimate use besides poaching?
:wink:


If you did try launching arrows with a ML, the arrow would probably be very unstable unless you could figure out how to get the fletching down the bore and keep the shaft centered in the bore at the same time. There is a good chance the arrow would become a bore obstruction too.

I recall reading a post about shooting heavy wooden darts from gonnes, and the darts had flexible leather fletching attached that could be rolled around the shaft of the dart for loading. I'm not even sure how necessary fletching would be unless someone has done some testing from a rifled bore or such.
And it's not like shooting wooden darts from muzzle loading guns is a new idea. It's just that it's not talked about or currently practiced much. But I think that the idea has proven itself viable in both the ancient & modern past.
 
Seems to me I have some pictures of a 1700s flare/signal gun

Sort of a Long barreled Jaeger flintlock kind of thing.

It shot illumination flares that looked like big bottle rockets

Definite wood rod down the bbl. ,fired from the shoulder.
 
Shoulder fired muzzleloading harpoon guns are still in use up here by native whalers, especially for the kill lance. Pretty common.

Memory is foggy whether it was L&C Journals or another source, but there's a historic account of one explorer or trapper that got separated from his party for some time with his rifle and powder but without his ball bag. He tried shooting small game with wooden "arrows" in his rifle, but as I recall he was pretty darned hungry when reunited.

And yeah, my wife forgot to withdraw the ramrod when shooting her 36 cal at targets. 30 grains of 3f if I recall correctly. Testimony to her marksmanship, she just missed the 10-ring on a 3" bull at 25 yards. She acknowledged feeling more recoil at the shot, but didn't realize what she had done till she started looking for her ramrod to reload. :redface:

Yeah we didn't kid her too much about it. Not after the first year anyway. :rotf: Come to think about it, maybe it's time to remind her one more time....... :stir:
 
There have been many designs for ML that fired non-bullet projectiles.
As Brown Bear said Native Whalers still use harpoon guns for hunting, there a still some ML types in use. Durring the 1880's ML harpoon guns were made by ww greener and colt. I just saw 2 diferent types in the Anchorage Museum, 1 was a ML caplock from the 1890's it had a cover that enclosed the hammer and nipple, the harpoon was wood and steel, the base was wood with a cork gasket on the end, it had fins that folded over for loading, the front end had a 4sided point and had an explosive charge inside. the gun was a smoothbore and the harpoon was just under bore size about 1". it was made for a pintle mount, it looked heavy and was about 3' long.
The second was a breakopen type like a shotgun, smoothbore but stocked to fire from the shoulder, it had a similar type harpoon but used a cartridge to fire it.The listed range for them was 40 yards. I have seen improvised stick grenade launchers that were made from single shot shotguns, it was recomended that the butt be placed on the ground to fire. The emergency use is what a good smoothbore is for, you can always load a handfull of pea gravel down the barrel to kill small game with, a little harder with a rifled barrel.
 
arcticap said:
So what does anyone think about the idea of shooting wooden arrows, harpoons, bolts or darts from the various types of muzzle loading guns, who has ever tried it or would be willing to? :hatsoff:

arcticap

Where I live, the Dakota’s, we can use a harpoon gun to fish.
I have been talking to our game, fish & parks about mounting one
on my boat and have been looking for ideas.
So yes I have interest in one. What do you have in mind?


Tinker2
 
There's a well known Connecticut company named Swivel Machine that makes archery barrels for the Ruger 10/22, as well as guns that fire arrows, harpoons, tranquilizing darts and larger caliber bullets powered by compressed air or blank cartridges.

Please don't call that "archery".

That's "shooting an arrow from a gun".

But then I still consider mechanical releases, metal or carbon fiber arrows, broadheads with moving parts and bows with wheels as abominations to the pure sport.
 
arcticap said:
Jethro224 said:
The arrow gun seems like a great idea for poachers and bowhunters who can't get in range with their bows, of course if they used one of those they would no longer be bowhunters, they'd be poachers...

I can't think of any other use for it.

I did mention the following which has nothing to do with poaching, target shooting with muzzle loading arrows/darts or harpooning/fishing with them:

I suppose that if someone was in a survival situation and ran out [of] bullets to shoot, that making a projectile from available materials would be [an] option.

And I wouldn't be surprised to learn that civil war soldiers have been shot with ramrods. How's self defense for a legimate use besides poaching?
:wink:

Yes you did mention survival situations. I'd use a rock for a ball. Or I'd build a bow while I was making arrows.
I imagine many a soldier was shot with a ramrod. I sincerely doubt that many were on purpose.
For self defense situations, when I'm out of balls and shooting sized rocks, I'll shoot my ramrod. If it ever comes to that I doubt there'll be time to make arrows. :haha:



If you did try launching arrows with a ML, the arrow would probably be very unstable unless you could figure out how to get the fletching down the bore and keep the shaft centered in the bore at the same time. There is a good chance the arrow would become a bore obstruction too.

I recall reading a post about shooting heavy wooden darts from gonnes, and the darts had flexible leather fletching attached that could be rolled around the shaft of the dart for loading. I'm not even sure how necessary fletching would be unless someone has done some testing from a rifled bore or such.
And it's not like shooting wooden darts from muzzle loading guns is a new idea. It's just that it's not talked about or currently practiced much. But I think that the idea has proven itself viable in both the ancient & modern past.

I'm not sure if fletching would be necessary either. With the shaft in a barrel it might not flex as much when shot. :hmm: At short ranges it probably wouldn't matter. At longer ranges it might.
Personally, if I'm only shooting 25 yards, and I'm making arrows, I'm shooting a bow. Less hassle and saves powder. Just my opinion.

I will give you the use for whalers shooting harpoons. :thumbsup: And yes, I'm sure it has been done for other reasons.

Still, I'll stick to balls for my MLers and bows for my arrows. :v
 
I think my ramrod would be the last thing I'd consider shooting! :shocked2: Much easier to make an impromptu arrow or two than a ramrod in a survival situation. Shooting your ramrod for survival would make as much sense as throwing your tomahawk in combat.... oops, forgot I'm on a forum where throwing the tomahawk in combat is an article of faith! :haha:

Just speculating, but if the arrow had large helical fletch, was reasonably straight and had a sharp cutting edge point it could be be effective at shorter ranges.

Making a bow would be the better option but available wood might not be suitable and, of course, time would be of the essence.
 
reddog said:


We have some big buffalo carp. You can use a bow, crossbow, spear or
a harpoon gun. A lot of fun and if you know how to cook them, good
eating.

If you are not aware of what a buffalo carp looks like. http://www.huntingsports.net/wp-content/gallery/fishingpictures/buffalo-carp.jpg

If you are in a small boat it can be interesting and fun.

A harpoon canoe gun. Yes, that could be fun.

So yes I have interest in one.

Arcticap, you going to make one? What are you thinking?



Tinker2
 
Last edited by a moderator:
A Harpoon Canoe Gun? Oh no! The fuse has done been lit. LaBonte, ya gotta see this!!!! :rotf:

Actually, the front loading harpoon gun was a reality. There may be an example in the Whaling Museum in New Bedford. You could try a Google search. Mystic Seaport might have something on them, too. They weren't especially attractive, as I recall, but they worked.
 
Back in the late fifties I tried making "darts" and shooting them from an old pump up 22 caliber air rifle. It was interesting but not very accurate. However last year at the P.A. Reinart Bean shoot I hit a trail gong shooting my ramrod. I still don't know if the ramrod or the ball hit the gong but one of them did. Also I know that a ramrod sure will knock a lot of snow off a bush. After all how do you think I earned the camp name ramrod?
 
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