Who's killed an elk with a round ball?

Any of you guys killed an elk with a round ball? I plan to hunt elk in CO this year with a .54 with round ball. What kind of penetration did you get? Any blood trail? How close do I need to be?

The last elk killed 3 yrs ago w/ a .54 PRB was the lead cow in a herd of 8, including a nice bull for which I didn't have a license. She was standing not quite broadside at 107 yds {paced off} and after the hit ran towards me for 40 yds and dropped dead. The load was a .535 Hornady, .020 patch and 130 grs. Goex 2f. The hit was centered in the ribs and the ball didn't exit and was later found just under the skin in the opposite shoulder and was the dia. of a quarter. I was very impressed w/ the PRB results seeing the previous 2 elk were killed w/ a 410 gr conical which also performed well...Good luck...Fred

used my cva mountain rifle last november for a cow elk. 80gr pyrodex rs, .015 patch, homecast .530 round ball took her through the lungs @ 140 yards. Great blood trail, She was dead after she walked/wabbled 60 yards :thumbsup:

You are better off asking "how close can I get?". Its a question that will get you into a lot less trouble. My last elk was my closest shot with a roundball. It was just under twenty yards through the neck and the blood trail was a puddle underneath the body. Took me 5 days of hard work to get that shot.

Sean

The last elk I killed was a large cow at about 70 yards with a nice side shot through the lungs and clipping the top of the heart. She went down in a heap. The ball went through and through breaking a rib on each side. It was a .520 ball on top of 80 grains of 3F GOEX.

I have taken a few more elk with that Santa Fe and none ran more than 25 yards. All were shot in the 50 to 70 yard range.

Earlier on I used a .58 with .562 RB that worked well also.

My last cow was at about 80-90 yards with a .490" ball and 80 grains 3f. It centered a rib on entrance, plowed through the lungs, hit a rib off center on the far side and appeared to tip sideways leaving an exit in the form of a narrow slit. She first jumped into the dark timber then reappeared to stand in about the same spot as where she had been shot. She was still on her feet when I finished reloading but dropped before I could shoot again. It was a high lung shot which is generally not a real quick kill even with a modern magnum.

Please everyone continue to share your expeiences.I'm really undecided on an Elk Load since I've never hunted Elk before but I am in the planning stages for my first Elk hunt. Presently I shoot a .530 ball with a.015 patch and an OP wad pushed by 90 grains of FFF goex. I'm wondering if I should up the powder charge,Stay where I'm at, or go to a conical. Elk appear to be such big animals I just want to do the right thing.

Last elk I killed was with a buck and ball load constiting of one patched .600 rb and 9 or 10 .32 caliber balls with an overshot wad. He was a rather large spike that was looking the other way at 15-20 yds - the patched round ball completely penetrated and whistled out into the timber. The others struck, lungs, liver, neck, heart, shoulder/spine - 3 steps and he piled up.

I hunt PRB only and have harvested an elk and deer every year for the last six years and a lion this year.
I shoot only Greenmtnbarrels and large game with a 54.
My load is 110 grns of FFG Goex Express a 530 RB and a .030 canvase patch.
60 yrds on out I usally get clean pass through or my ball stops in the hide on the far side.
At close range 40yrds and under my ball is going fast enough where is flattens out to a 50 cent piece and usally it will stop in the center lung area.

I have never has an elk or deer go further than 50 yrds than drop.
:thumbsup:

90 grains of FFg powder with that caliber and ball, should be giving you 1670 fps MV. according to my Hodgdon Data manual. If the load is accurate, I can't see any reason to increase the powder charge. Accurate placement is more important than more powder/velocity.

You are passed the point of diminishing returns. You need a 32 inch barrel to barely burn 90 grains efficiently. For every 5 grain increment in powder, you need to add 2 inches to the barrel length to burn that higher powder charge efficiently.

You are apparently NOT listening to the forum members, here, who report that a .54 caliber RB will completely penetrate the sides of any Elk, shot broadside, whether they are hitting bones or not. If you are planning to take frontal or rear shots, then you can consider using lead balls cast from Wheelweights, because the harder ball almost never expands, and gives greater penetration for that reason.

I agree with the member who suggests that you work on your stalking skills so that you can get closer to your target, rather than on pushing your shoulder harder.

Like most ungulates, Elk "listen", through their FEET, to the ground as their early warning system. Practice your stalking techniques on any animal you can, during this summer, learning how to move slowly, and softly. NO ONE moves softly when they are moving fast.

Bend your knees and keep them unlocked, unless standing up behind a tree. Reduce your silhouette when moving by bending at the waist. Stay on game trails, rather than busting brush. Game trails go around thick brush, and you will almost always find a defined small game trail from one large tree to its neighbor.

Breaking brush is always an ALARM signal to all animals. Learn to listen to the birds, and squirrels, and other small animals in the woods or mountains. They are the look-outs for all game. Elk and deer will stop and listen whenever they hear an alarm call by small game and varmints, or birds.

A lot of archers take Elk every year, and their long range shot is 50 yards! You should be able to get within the working range of your rifle much easier than archers do with their equipment.

Good Hunting. :hatsoff:

I don't sneak when hunting elk in timber seeing elk are normally noisy animals. I often break branches while giving a toot on the cowcall and while standing, have often had a nosey elk come over and investigate. Have also "landed" in the middle of a few herds doing this. This won't work w/ whitetails but surely does w/ elk. Most in our party hunt this way and it's worked for many years w/ success...Fred

When guiding I will softly cow call with noisy hunters or if the woods are crunchy.
When alone I don't make any noise until I need to manipulate the elk I stalked in on.
I don't like to advertise my location when I am alone.
even a skilled hunter may over look a bedded elk or deer all the wile cow calling and moving slowly.
Also if stalking dark timber I take three maby four steps and glass my surronding area.

Hntr79 said:

Any of you guys killed an elk with a round ball? I plan to hunt elk in CO this year with a .54 with round ball. What kind of penetration did you get? Any blood trail? How close do I need to be?

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The heavy front leg bone will limit penetration if struck.
With 100 grains of powder+- and a patched ball 54 is going to work well. But like everything its shot placement. 80-100 yards is close enough if you can place the shot.
I would do broadside lung to 100 or so or base of the throat if facing me but this is a 40 yard shot.
Making noise has never worked for me. Nor do I use cow calls where I hunt. It attracts things with big teeth and claws and usually an attitude. http://www.codyenterprise.com/articles/2008/09/22/news/news3.txt
This is one of several where cow calls brought trouble in the past 2-3 years. They are also starting to come to gunshots as "dinner bells" in some areas.

Dan

CoyoteJoe said:

It was a high lung shot which is generally not a real quick kill even with a modern magnum.

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This is a very very imporant point.
I can't stress shot placement enough.
A high lung will slow the killing process by as much as five min also a high lung shot on an elk WILL NOT! leave a good blood trail because all the blood will drain into the chest cavity leaving little or no blood on the ground.
Joe's shot was also 90 yrds dang near off hand which in my book was an ausom achevement.
:thumbsup:
At 100 yrds your front site will almost cover up the broad side lung area.

Dan Phariss said:

Making noise has never worked for me. Nor do I use cow calls where I hunt. It attracts things with big teeth and claws and usually an attitude. http://www.codyenterprise.com/articles/2008/09/22/news/news3.txt
This is one of several where cow calls brought trouble in the past 2-3 years. They are also starting to come to gunshots as "dinner bells" in some areas.

Dan

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Areas that have brown bears.
I will agree that cow calling depending on the call will bring in preditors.
I have used a lost calf call on hung up elk and have had two black bear and one lion come in to check me out wile guiding. that is why I always pack a "big medican" 44 mag when doing this.
Usally once the critter relizes that it's a human making the noise they boogy, all tho the black bear circled my hunters and I popping it's teeth.
Meaning it was nervous not hunting once it winded us.
I never walk into the woods with out a back hand gun. A must when guiding or hunting with a bow.

Hntr79 said:

Any of you guys killed an elk with a round ball? I plan to hunt elk in CO this year with a .54 with round ball. What kind of penetration did you get? Any blood trail? How close do I need to be?

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I archery hunt elk but I kilt a buffalo with a .54 PRB http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/232538/ Shot it in the neck at about 50 yards. Ball went through about 20" of meat and bone. Couldnt recover the ball due to a complete pass through. Shot a .530 ball over a .020 patch and 90 grains of Pyrodex RS.

I've noticed that a lot of you guys use thicker patches.018 and up. Does a thicker patch noticably increase velocity?

Patch thickness is about sealing gases behind the PRB. Any increase in velocity is secondary.

You have to read your patches to determine whether you need to use a thicker or thinner patch, or solve the gas seal issue some other way. There are NO shortcuts on this skill. You either learn how to read patches, or you play guessing games.

If you don't have it, buy Dutch Schoultz's Black Powder Rifle Accuracy System for $15.00 and you will learn how to read your patches, and then your groups. Its a very cheap means to get up to speed on these skills.
http://www.blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com/

is Dutch's website with contact info. I think so highly of his materials that I keep them here next to my computer to use when someone here sends in pictures of his patches with questions about what the patches "mean". I have not met Dutch. I have talked to him on the phone, when I needed help. I first saw an ad he used to place in the Want Ads section at the back of Muzzle Blasts.

paulvallandigham said:

Patch thickness is about sealing gases behind the PRB. Any increase in velocity is secondary.

You have to read your patches to determine whether you need to use a thicker or thinner patch, or solve the gas seal issue some other way. There are NO shortcuts on this skill. You either learn how to read patches, or you play guessing games.

If you don't have it, buy Dutch Schoultz's Black Powder Rifle Accuracy System for $15.00 and you will learn how to read your patches, and then your groups. Its a very cheap means to get up to speed on these skills.
http://www.blackpowderrifleaccuracy.com/

is Dutch's website with contact info. I think so highly of his materials that I keep them here next to my computer to use when someone here sends in pictures of his patches with questions about what the patches "mean". I have not met Dutch. I have talked to him on the phone, when I needed help. I first saw an ad he used to place in the Want Ads section at the back of Muzzle Blasts.

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Paul is absoulty correct!
To me what determins Patch thickness is how deep your grooves in your rifle are.
Deeper grooves thicker patch.
A Lyman GPR shoots best with a .015 to .018 patch with it's shallow buttoned rifled grooves, where my Green Mtn Barrels with .012 deep grooves like .020 plus thick patches.

I've noticed that a lot of you guys use thicker patches.018 and up. Does a thicker patch noticably increase velocity?

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Yes, it does. IMO, it's not about sealing gasses so much as it is about increasing the initial resistance of the ball to movement which in turn results in a cleaner and more efficient powder burn. I once chronographed the difference between a tc .54 cal with 28 inch barrel and a lyman gpr with a 32 inch barrel. With the same load components the tc shot over 100 fps faster with an 80 grain powder charge. The only difference to be noted in the two loads was the tc loaded much much tighter.

A Lyman GPR shoots best with a .015 to .018 patch with it's shallow buttoned rifled grooves,

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Actually, the gpr barrels are cut rifled. The tc barrels are button rifled though.

I agree regarding patch thickness. My GM barrels are rifled about twice as deep as the Lymans.