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My two cents on ignition speed

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Carl Davis said:
Kind of makes your moderator's work seem worthwhile, doesn't it.

Maybe we should ask for a 25% raise?

Let's see, 25% of nothing is. . . :hmm: :haha:
 
I agree that good shooting comes from good technical form & practice & follow thru. BUT, all things equal, the same person should do better with a gun that's tuned up to funtion properly. When you do bench research relating to much of anything you exagerate the cause & see what the effect is. The theory is that if an exageration of conditions causes some thing to happen then a non exageration will also cause the same effect, only less of it. With this in mind go & get yourself some firecracker fuse & slide it under your closed frizzen & have some one light it while you aim at a target. This setup would make a good example of the worst possible ignition. Compare your results with a target shot with a quality cap lock or a modern cartridge gun. My gut feeling is that even the best flint shooter would do better with the good ignition. If this is true then it would stand to logic that slight improvements in ignition would also produce slightly better groups from the same shooter.

Now for my "two cents worth" relating to flint shooting. I think the biggest obstacle to good shooting with a flint is a mental block that stands in the way of good shooting with a flint. A person shoots a cap gun or modern gun & it's just a gun. They aim it, pull the trigger without too much concern other than whether it's aimed properly & whether or not they hit something. With a flinter the brain starts kicking into over time. Now you think non stop about the fact that this thing you have ahold of is a flinter & is different than what you're comfortable with or used to. Basically a person can talk themself out of hitting anything before they ever pull the trigger. I remember bringing my first flinter to the range & hearing the old timers say that if I was ever going to be any good at this that I should shoot nothing but flint for a few years & see how I was doing. I am convinced that this is what they were saying, if I shot the flinter long enough that it also would become just another rifle. At that point I would be able to aim & fire it without being concerned as to what it was, just sights, target, ect.

Are you sure it wasn't Whinnie the Pooh. Man I can't stand that bear.

Paul
 
Of course technique is VERY important, but no one's technique is perfect. Faster lock time compensates (to a degree) for inadequacies in technique.Even modern centerfire benchrest shooters want the fastest possible lock time; most of them have "technique" down to a science.

My .02.
 
Huntin Dawg said:
Ignition speed doesn't matter.

If you don't have proper shooting technique nothing else matters.

Your flintlock can fire as fast as a centerfire (yeah right!) but if you don't have follow-through you won't have good groups or dead deer.

All the talk about ignition speed is pure poo in my opinion.

Now let's hear it.

:v

HD
I like my guns fast, poo or not. I shoot alot of skeet (or used to when I had time). My leads with a flintlock are no different than with a modern gun. I can tell no difference with the speed of my flint guns than with a hammer cartridge gun.
Rifles...same here, fast as a cartridge gun. Follow through is important with both cartridge and flint. But, being able to get the shot off when the sights are on and the wind is right is the most important aspect of shooting rifles.
 
Huntin Dawg said:
Amazing! 15 replies and only about 3 of them are remotely serious. The rest are rambling about poo.
:shake:

HD
Well, I for one am a little surprised at this comment...since many of us saw the original post as a humorous or tongue-in-cheek question, it must mean that's how it came across to a lot of folks...ie: it read as if Flintlock ignition speed really wasn't important at all.

So if you want pure straight answers, mine would be that BOTH shooting form and Flintlock ignition speed are very important in terms of accuracy of course..

But IMO, Flintlock ignition speed is the ultimate trump card, because with relatively little effort I can ensure mine is very fast all the time, however, consistently attaining perfect, precision shooting form for each and every shot is a constant work in progress for me...so maintaining fast ignition at least establishes a "floor" upon which I know my shooting skills are good enough to make clean hits
 
"But IMO, Flintlock ignition speed is the ultimate trump card, because with relatively little effort I can ensure mine is very fast all the time,""

By that you mean you wrap your flints with led..... :rotf:

Twice..
 
Twice boom said:
"But IMO, Flintlock ignition speed is the ultimate trump card, because with relatively little effort I can ensure mine is very fast all the time,""

By that you mean you wrap your flints with led..... :rotf:

Twice..

But ONLY if they're geniune lead pounded flat from a Hornady or Speer 4 bore size swaged round ball...that allows the excess to be wrapped completely around the lock assembly like a cow's knee to keep things dry as well...
 
roundball said:
Huntin Dawg said:
Amazing! 15 replies and only about 3 of them are remotely serious. The rest are rambling about poo.
:shake:

HD
Well, I for one am a little surprised at this comment...since many of us saw the original post as a humorous or tongue-in-cheek question, it must mean that's how it came across to a lot of folks...ie: it read as if Flintlock ignition speed really wasn't important at all.

Nothing humorous about the original post at all. He did use the word "poo" rather than a harsher word, but all that got him was a bunch of adolescent poo jokes. God help the newbie who thought they'd get some serious answers here.
 
Well Guys here goes
I actually take this very serious... SO You can shoot at me latter...
Yes I agree following through is the most important , however Ignition speed plays a large part. I hunt with a lot of flinters, and have found that the faster the ignition the easier to follow through. When my locks are sparking, and flashing hot, with the proper pan and touch hole setup. I can out shoot myself using a poorly setup gun. I have also found that the powder size in the pan really has not been an issue. I now use the same as in main charge. After shooting flinters for years The pan, proper frizon, flint, hammer setup, as well as the touch hole have appeared to be the biggest point (yes, yes, yes after follow through).
Well there is my two cents worth Cheers just a Loyalist Dawg :hatsoff:
 
I'm gonna agree and disagree at the same once. :rotf:

I agree 100% that without proper technique, nothing else matters.

I disagree that ignition speed doesn't matter, though. Even on modern centerfire and rimfire target rifles, getting faster lock time is one of things that makes building competition grade guns so expensive. And it's money well spent, as it is one of the things that increases the score if the shooter is doing his part.

Even with perfect form, there are many small things going on with our bodies. From adjuster muscles working to keep things lined up for the shot, to that pesky heartbeat. The quicker the gun goes off, the less these things effect the shot.

I think we've all seen or shot those flinters that kinda go "klatch-pffff-boom". I haven't shot one, but I've seen a couple at the range. I just think it would be dang hard to get a good group with them, regardless of technique.
 
Carl Davis said:
roundball said:
Huntin Dawg said:
Amazing! 15 replies and only about 3 of them are remotely serious. The rest are rambling about poo.
:shake:

HD
Well, I for one am a little surprised at this comment...since many of us saw the original post as a humorous or tongue-in-cheek question, it must mean that's how it came across to a lot of folks...ie: it read as if Flintlock ignition speed really wasn't important at all.

Nothing humorous about the original post at all. He did use the word "poo" rather than a harsher word, but all that got him was a bunch of adolescent poo jokes. God help the newbie who thought they'd get some serious answers here.

The poo jokes only serve to poo poo the meaningless threads that continually pop up on this forum. Threads like this one, for example. A good flint shooter doesn't depend on fast lock time to place a shot accurately, though fast lock time can help.

IMHO, What is necessary for consistent accuracy is good form and a reliable lock.

IMHO, and that is all anyone is offering, an opinion. And when opinions are the only thing offered, the thread is really meaningless, hence the meaningless poo jokes.

I don't mean to poo poo anyone's questions, :grin: however, there is a LOT of bull poo offered on this forum, in the form of meaningless opinion, often offered by folks who would be much better off to read and learn, rather than offer their uninformed opinions, with the result being nothing short of a pooing contest. :v


That said, I am aware that I have opened myself for a cryptic two word reply. I find myself in good company with Mike Brooks and Dan Pharis.
 
Firecracker fuse in a flintlock is good training for hang fires! SSSShhhhhhhh........BOOM!
 
Lock time certainly IS a very important factor. The whole point of good form and follow through is to minimize the bad effects of a slow lock time. Olympic level marksmen certainly have their shooting form perfected as much as possible but know they can save a point or two with the fastest possible lock time and that lock time, even in one of the slower rimfires is very much faster than one could ever hope to achieve with a flintlock or even a sidelock percussion. A mediocre shooter with an Olympic free rifle could easily beat the record score for offhand flintlock, no contest.
 
If one is an expert shooter, lock time wouldn't matter much. It's not so much the follow through that gets me, it's the flinch, very hard for me to beat. I have noticed that when I am shooting good it seems I have got the flinch under control, that is until I have a missfire, (very rare) or slow ignition, kind of a let down to see the muzzle drift off target immediatly after that happens.I don't think I will ever get rid of that flinch, however I don't flinch as bad as I used to. I think there are very few of us that can hold dead on target after a missfire. So, for me I think lock time is important. flinch
 
Carl Davis said:
roundball said:
Huntin Dawg said:
Amazing! 15 replies and only about 3 of them are remotely serious. The rest are rambling about poo.
:shake:

HD
Well, I for one am a little surprised at this comment...since many of us saw the original post as a humorous or tongue-in-cheek question, it must mean that's how it came across to a lot of folks...ie: it read as if Flintlock ignition speed really wasn't important at all.

Nothing humorous about the original post at all. He did use the word "poo" rather than a harsher word, but all that got him was a bunch of adolescent poo jokes. God help the newbie who thought they'd get some serious answers here.

Thank you.

With this thread I was merely offering my 2 cents about the whole ignition speed thing. My point is simply that if you don't have good shooting form and follow through speed doesn't matter.
Your rifle could go spitter, spatter, pfffft, spark, flash, and then boom and as long as you have good form and follow through you'll hit what you're aiming at.

For everyone who had fun with the word poo, I'll try to use a more manly word for BS next time.

:v

HD
 
"Well" You did start the thread with.....Ignition speed does not matter, and of coarse it matters greatly.IMHO

Especially off hand shooting by those of us that are not experts.I did qualify as expert in the Army however, but that was when Napoleon was a corporal. :grin:
 
Huntin Dawg said:
Carl Davis said:
roundball said:
Huntin Dawg said:
Amazing! 15 replies and only about 3 of them are remotely serious. The rest are rambling about poo.
:shake:

HD
Well, I for one am a little surprised at this comment...since many of us saw the original post as a humorous or tongue-in-cheek question, it must mean that's how it came across to a lot of folks...ie: it read as if Flintlock ignition speed really wasn't important at all.

Nothing humorous about the original post at all. He did use the word "poo" rather than a harsher word, but all that got him was a bunch of adolescent poo jokes. God help the newbie who thought they'd get some serious answers here.

Thank you.

With this thread I was merely offering my 2 cents about the whole ignition speed thing. My point is simply that if you don't have good shooting form and follow through speed doesn't matter.
Your rifle could go spitter, spatter, pfffft, spark, flash, and then boom and as long as you have good form and follow through you'll hit what you're aiming at.

For everyone who had fun with the word poo, I'll try to use a more manly word for BS next time.
:v
HD

Thank you ??????

With all due respect, its easy for somebody to sit out on a limb and watch a thread develop like this one did, where multiple people obviously misunderstood your wording, THEN that somebody makes a post that "passes judgement" on other people's responses...and you thank them for it??

HD, your post unfortunately had some words in it that were misunderstood by multiple people...and I'm sure none would have responded the way they did had it not been for that misunderstanding...it's not the end of the world... :wink:
 
I beg to differ about people misunderstanding.

I seriously doubt that anyone who read the original post or the follow ups misunderstood the subject.

The 'poo' simply opened up an area where a little fun could be had.

While serious answers are of course the final goal, without a bit of light-hearted humor from time to time things would be dull indeed.
About as dull as reading a Trigonometry book from cover to cover and marveling at the concept of using fractions of Pi as a method of angular measurement.
 
roundball said:
Thank you ??????

With all due respect, its easy for somebody to sit out on a limb and watch a thread develop like this one did, where multiple people obviously misunderstood your wording, THEN that somebody makes a post that "passes judgement" on other people's responses...and you thank them for it??

HD, your post unfortunately had some words in it that were misunderstood by multiple people...and I'm sure none would have responded the way they did had it not been for that misunderstanding...it's not the end of the world... :wink:

With all due respect to you roundball. Yes, I thanked him for seeing what my original post was about. I don't see where there was anything to misunderstand. A few folks too the word poo and had a good time with it. No harm, no foul.

My opinion still stands that ignition time doesn't matter if you have proper form and follow through. We're talking primitive weapons here, not high power centerfire sniper rifles.

:v

HD
 
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