Have to pick a rifle

Hello all,

My brother and I are trying to start a tradition of black powder hunting every year together. Here in Missouri the season usually runs through Thanksgiving so our families could also spend time together as well. That being said I am somewhat of a traditionalist. I like the look and feel of the percussion muzzleloading rifles. My brother however has embraced the modern rifles.

Now here is the situation. 10 years ago I gave up my smokepole. I have forgotten most of what I knew about them and the loads. I do remember I used to shoot a .490 round ball over 90 gr. of Pyrodex. That is about all. I need to buy another rifle and am looking for you guys to help me find something that will work well for me and that will last a while.

Is there an advantage to shooting a .45 cal over a .50 cal. ? What is the proper twist for shooting a patched round ball? And I know on some rifles the instructions say DO NOT REMOVE THE BREACH PLUG. If this is the case then how are you to clean your rifle properly?

Thank you all for you opinions,
Brian
aka tryinhard

Oh yeah. Where is the most economical place to buy at?

TH

A lot of the factory guns have a 1:48 twist and that will be fine for PRB. If you have one built for you, then you'd typically find a slower rate of twist for PRB. Especially as the caliber gets larger. However, I think there are some factory guns that are built with a 1:66 twist. Traditions comes to mind.
An advantage the .45 might have over a .50 would be less powder consumption on range sessions. Typically, the bigger the ball, the more effective it will be on deer sized game.
Right, don't remove the breech plug! You don't need to. You clean your rifle from the muzzle end using water or some other appropriate MZ bore cleaner.

Try midsouth. A .50 give you an edge on deer sized game, over a .45. Use a ROT that is at least 1:48, and if you are only going to shoot PRBs, then you might look for a Lyman Great Plains Rifle with a 1:66 ROT.

I am not a fan of pyrodex, or other subs. You can buy black powder from suppliers and have it delivered to your door. Contact Graf& sons, or Powder, INc. to order small lots. If you order at least 5 lbs, they pay shipping, but you pay the Haz Mat fee( $20.00) per shipment, and the price of the powder. They can also sell you primers, and ship it with the powder order. If you are shooting with your family, it pays to order powder as a group, so you can both save on the costs. Graf & Sons are in Missouri I believe, so maybe you can just drive to them, and save even more money. You can use either FFFg or FFg in a .50. With the substitute powders you usally need to use #11 Magnum primers to insure good ignition. With real Black Powder, you can use standard #11 percussion caps.

Wecome back to the sport. This is a good place to get information. Go back on the index page to the forum, and on the top you will find Member Resources. Take the time to read the articles, charts and links pages. The links will give you the names of suppliers. Most have on-line catalogues. :thumbsup:

Welcome to the forum. Others will have their two cents worth, but here is mine. I really like my Lyman Great Plains Rifle in 50 cal percussion. I used to use 100 gr goex 2f, .490 ball, pillow ticking. This year, I used 70 gr goex 2f, .490 ball, pillow ticking. This load made no difference in penetration. I have shot 3 deer with this rifle. After this year, I felt it earned the name of Mjolnir. If I was doing it over I would get the .54 cal GPR.
Borego

First of all I hope you have a printer, because of all the information you are going to get you will need one. :rotf:
For me I have 50's 54's 56's cal. I like the 1-66 to 1-70 twist for the rbs. I have a lot of guns with 1-48 twist that shoot rbs. well too. I use goex 3 f powder in all my guns. 15th patch with rbs.
As far as money spent, get the best you can for what you want to spend. And as far as cleaning goes I put my barrel in a bucket of soapy water and pull the water up into the barrel to clean it.
I pull the nipple out and clean it and I oil it all and put it back together.

WELCOME! now,,check the classifieds on here! ALWAYS a gun fer sale, usually a good price,, lotta 50 cal. stuff around too,,,get the gun and the guys here will get ya where ya wanna be! good luck! you made the best first step...yer here! :thumbsup:

For a production gun, The Lyman GPR is a good deal.
I'd opt for a .54.

90 grains of Pyro RS, or Goex 2f sounds about right for a 50 cal load for deer size game, if the accuracy is good. I like to use 80 grains of 3f or Pyro P in my 1/48 twist barrels.

If your looking for a production rifle, I would consider a T/C Hawken, or A good used Renegade.The life time warranty is a big plus.

50 cal = bigger hole tan 45 :wink:

I have little to add as to what gun or caliber to buy; the others have covered it pretty well. I personally prefer .50 cal or higher and both Lyman and Thompson Center make excellent guns. Buying used will get the best price but be sure to have a return clause and inspect it carefully on arrival. If buying new, I'll recommend Midsouth Shooters Supply.

As for cleaning, frankly, the others didn't cover that nearly as well.

Fill a bucket or basin with warm, or hot, soapy water. If the gun has a hooked breech, remove the barrel from the gun and submerge the breech in the cleaning solution. Remove the nipple or not as you wish. Use a cleaning jag on your ramrod or range rod. Wet a patch with the cleaning solution, place it over the muzzle and push it down to the breech. When you pull it back out the patch/jag will suck the cleaning solution into the barrel and all the way up to the muzzle; then just reverse and push it back down, forcing the gunk out the nipple/drum.

If you don't have a hooked breech, leave the barrel in the gun and the nipple installed. Then simply attach a small hose to the nipple and placd the free end in the cleaning solution; the patch/jag will still suck the solution into the barrel.

Rinse the same way with hot water.

Do not :nono: , as your intrepid tutor did years ago when he cleaned his first percussion rifle, attempt to suck the cleaning fluid up from the muzzle to the breach by sucking on the hose with your mouth. You will not like the taste of hot, soapy black powder combustion byproducts.
:barf:

Others will suggest solutions of Murphy's Oil Soap, or Ballistol, or winshield washer anti freeze, or whatever. They work also.

The Lyman GPR is the best production rifle for the money. With their 1 in 60" twist barrels they are very accurate with patched round balls. I have two .54 GPRs, one percussion and one flinter. Midsouth Shooyers have the besy prices: http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/ . Paul is right about ordering black powder. It works out to be cheaper then Pyrodex. Here's a couple of places to check: http://www.grafs.com/ and http://www.mainepowderhouse.com/ . Good luck :thumbsup: .

mykeal said:

If you don't have a hooked breech, leave the barrel in the gun and the nipple installed. Then simply attach a small hose to the nipple and place the free end in the cleaning solution; the patch/jag will still suck the solution into the barrel.
Rinse the same way with hot water.

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Back when all I had was a percussion rifle, I made an attachment that replaced the nipple in the drum; it had a much larger hole and so moved a lot more water. I put a piece of tubing over that and put the other end in the water as you described.

bucktales said:

For a production gun, The Lyman GPR is a good deal.
I'd opt for a .54.

Click to expand...

Good advice here

welcome back to the game. as regards a new (to you anyway) rifle, i would recommend a Lyman or Thompson Center Great Plains Rifle, in .54 cal if you can get it, otherwise .50. you could do a lot worse and pay a lot more.

check the classifieds on this site, or check out MidSouth. as regards the slight additional cost of shooting a .54 over shooting a .50, i really think that it's a quibble - just one guy's opinion ... but, really, compared to the cost of factory load centerfire, it's really cheap.

as regards cleaning, remember to at least swab the bore as soon as you can after shooting - even once - and to clean as soon as is practical. use warm (not hot) soapy water, followed by isopropyl alcohol, followed by a good oil, and you'll be OK. other methods available, results may vary.

think about flint. flint is fun, although occasionally frustrating, but if it were always easy, it would be boring ... i.e. not fun.

good luck and good hunting!

bucktales said:

For a production gun, The Lyman GPR is a good deal.
I'd opt for a .54.

Click to expand...

I second that. www.midsouthshooterssupply.com has very good prices on Lyman rifles.

In a pinch you can clean one with soapy water by just dampening the patches and leaving the barrel in the stock. Just keep the muzzle lower than the breech. Follow up with a WD-40 spritz and a few more dry patches to chase the water & get the last of the crud off the breech face. Tuck the edge of the patch under thr jag when screwing it down and you'l never have to try and fish a lost patch out from the muzzle.



I'm gagging just thinking about that. Bluck. :barf:

Welcome and hope you enjoy the sport, I'm sure your brother will be converted in time. heck you both will be shooting patched round balls (PRB)from a flintlock before long :thumbsup: .

Here's a link to a vendor I am not familiar with. Someone else on this board posted their link and I just ordered some stuff so will see how the service is. They have used guns for sale including .50 GPR and TC Hawken for $375.

http://www.thegunworks.com/GunIndex.cfm

Merry Christmas!
TC

If you would like to see a deer struck by Lightning, get a 58 or 62. :thumbsup:

Brian where in Mo. you located?

mykeal said:

Do not :nono: , as your intrepid tutor did years ago when he cleaned his first percussion rifle, attempt to suck the cleaning fluid up from the muzzle to the breach by sucking on the hose with your mouth. You will not like the taste of hot, soapy black powder combustion byproducts.
:barf:

Click to expand...

:barf: :rotf: :rotf:

The 45 cal will work, but if you are only going to have one rifle, there are better options. However I like the 45 cal for target work real well. For hunting with a round ball I'd go with a TC Hawken in 54 cal. My 2nd choice is of course the TC Hawken in 50 cal. Hornady great plains hollow point bullets normally shoot real well out of TC Hawken rifles, and perform excellent on deer. Make sure you put a felt wad under the bullet.