flash in the pan part 2

This is about the 1777 Charleville musket I have.
I had another post describing having the prime charge go off without setting off the main charge. The vent hole being small was one possibility.
I measured again tonight and the hole is larger than 1/16" so I don't think that is my problem.
I had some very good suggestions to help me. Wiping the flint was one tip that I did not know to do. I did use a brush to clean the pan, but it didn't look that clean after.
I know to tip the prime away from the vent, and I will if I remember. I was also told to bump the main charge to get it settled close to the vent, and again I didn't know to do that.
I will try to get the amount I prime with sorted out. That is apparently trial and error and I'm working on it.
I had a few times the charge in the pan didn't go off. Probably not enough spark from the flint being dirty, but I am not sure. I need to figure out if the flint is at the right angle. I don't know what else to check though. The spring is basically new as is the musket. The flint has lead instead of leather holding it in the cock. The flint almost touches the frizzen at halfcock.

Could ya'll help with more tips?

Jim

Ok, i wouldn't do this for just anybody but you are after all a fellow member so here goes. Just pack that musket up and ship it to me, i will even help with the shipping costs, and i will work with it until i have it working right and a load figured out for it, even if it takes me a year or two. Then, after i get it all straightened out for ya, i will ship it back to you and even pay part of the shipping again. So what ya think? :grin:

I have a Bess that had the same problem. I made
the touch hole larger..still had the problem so
I made the hole larger...It NEVER hang fires,
or fails to ignite..I started off with a #52 and
kept going till it became the right size for
that calibre..I don't remember what size it
ended up being..don't matter..you have to open
it up till you get the thing to work...FACT !!
Based on personal experience,,,

Rebel, you will pay part of the shipping? Really?
Do I need to send some powder and roundballs too?

What a friend!

Thanks! :surrender:

Jim

Pepperbelly:

Have you tried loading the main charge with the vent prick in the touch hole? It does form a small channel that has helped me in getting a good ignition.

Slowmatch Forever!
Teleoceras

Teleoceras said:

Pepperbelly:

Have you tried loading the main charge with the vent prick in the touch hole? It does form a small channel that has helped me in getting a good ignition.

Slowmatch Forever!
Teleoceras

Click to expand...

No, I haven't tried that. Thanks for the tip,

Jim

Polish the pan mirror smooth, so its easy to wipe clean with a cleaning patch every time you fire it. That is the same patch you can use to wipe the underside and top side of your flint, and the bottom of the frizzen. You will be looking at the face of the frizzen. If you see moisture on it, then use another clean, dry patch to wipe the face of the frizzen down, too. Its the residue you leave in the pan and in the barrel that absorbs moisture from the air.

I do this cleaning after firing the gun. and before I put the butt on the ground to clean the barrel for reloading. When I have put powder, patch and ball down the barrel, I use my vent pick, which has a flat ground or file on one side of the point, to push powder away in the main charge, to form a hole through the powder to speed ignition inside the barrel. Just run the pick into the vent until it touches the opposite side of the bore, twist it a couple of times, back and forth, and remove it. Sometimes, a little bit of dust comes out on the flat portion of the pick, but it amounts to nothing.

Then go ahead and prime the pan to fire. Its the loading sequence that is the " trick ". Some people will put a toothpick, or vent pick into the vent hole and leave it there while they load the powder in the barrel. Since I clean the moisture and residue out of my barrel after every shot, the pick would be in my way of my cleaning routine, so I do this job as I have described above. Removing the pick after the powder charge, patch and ball are loading down the barrel leaves a nice hole in the main powder charge for speedy ignition.

If I were using FFFg powder, AND compacting the powder charge, I would use this other method, rather than have to pick a hole into a compacted powder charge in the barrel with my vent pick. When using FFg powder in a flintlock, I tilt the barrel to one side as I pour the powder down the barrel, I want the powder to slide down the barrel, and not drop down it. Dropping compacts it, which inhibits fast ignition in a flintlock. Since a percussion cap burns a hole through the powder charge, compacting the powder actually gives a lower SDV in percussion guns. In Flintlocks, loading the powder loose, and NOT compacting it gives the lowest SDV. This is probably not noticeable for off-hand shooters, and many hunters, but it is noticed when shooting off a bench rest.Since I have had shooters who know me come down to ask me if I was still shooting a flintlock, because my gun went off so fast, only to learn that what they heard WAS a flintlock, properly tuned, timed, and loaded, I can't say that all shooters don't notice this.

Jim, no need to ship powder and lead too, but thanks for the offer. I think i can manage that part for the testing though. :grin: And 'sides, what are friends for? :rotf:

I'm for a large touch hole, I load the gun, then prick it, then put a small amount of powder at the outside edge of the pan. Close the frizzen, personally I don't bump the powder toward the touch hole, actually I bump it away from the hole.
My thinking is the powder will egnite and flash across the pan - going into the pricked touch hole. If it's muggy, I will wipe the flint and brush the pan out. Not sure which of these steps does the trick or if it's the combination. I'm betting it's the large touch hole that has been pricked :thumbsup: hope this helps.

Wart

On my GPR, I drilled the vent hole to 1/16" and it helped some what. I drilled it to 5/64" and what a big difference. Don't forget to pick. You may also try different size powder for prime. As for Rebel, he'll shot you musket for a year or two then tell you that it's no good. The riflings are all gone and may offer you $50.00 for it :rotf: .

My vote goes for a larger vent also. Will you lose velocity? Probably, but not enough to notice. Emery

Hey now Cowpoke, don't be givin' away trade secrets. :grin:

Lager vent holes were the norm on original guns and they work well on replicas also particularly on the larger bores I used a straight 5/64 hole in a .58 fusil and it works fine, this small hole thing os a contemporary thing based on very small pressure drops as the hole got larger maybe an issue on a bench gun but you will not know the difference on a mucket except that it goes off all the time if your prime ignites.

Just out of curiosity, have you tried keeping the priming charge close to the touch hole?

The pics that Pletch posted in the thread on position of priming powder showed a lot more fire in the barrel when the powder was close to the barrel.

I have also touched the outside of the vent hole with a counterbore or drill tip, to create a slight cone on the outside, seems to assist in ignition. Like Paul, I have had people wonder at the speed of ignition. Be VERY careful when touching the outside, not to do too much. A little goes a long way. Good smoke, Ron inFL

When I checked the venthole size I noticed that the outer lip of the pan was in the way of drilling straight through the hole to enlarge it.
Would the pan need to be removed in order to drill the hole larger or cone it if I decide it's needed? If so that means the lock would need to be removed since the pan is attached to it, right?

Jim

Yes. Remove the lock absolutely. Be a pity to mar it up (or dribble metal bits into the mechanism from the drilling).

Thanks Stumpy. I almost removed the screw that looks like it holds the pan on. When I looked a little closer that screw also holds the spring on, so I thought the lock had to come off.
I know I have asked this before, but to remove the lock all I need to do is remove the screws on the other side of the stock, right?

Since my vent is already a little over 1/16", what size should I drill it to?

Jim

Yes remove the bolts on the side opposite the lock to remove the lock. Some oif them need to be on half cock to get them out. As far as drilling the vent hole any bigger just remember, once you drill it out is is awfully hard to Put It Back. I think what you need is more experience or better yet another flintlock shooter that knows what they are doing to show you the ropes. It may just be something simple that needs done to get it to fire right.

Jim: Did you shoot the gun enough to know that the vent has to be opened some more? If so, then take it up to 5/64" with the proper sized drill bit. That should make the action work properly and end any flash in the pan problems.