first timer - muzzleloader rifle today

I shot a t/c Hawken .50 percussion rifle today. first time I've shot a muzzleloader rifle. I had speer .490" RB, .010 pre-lubed patches, and some Triple 7 FFg. I shot with 50gr, 60gr and 70gr. I guess I shot around 12 times, no cleaning in between. I was shooting at 50yds. It was shooting high and to the right. the rear sight is adjustable, so I'll work on that next time. I was just glad I was putting every shot on paper.

I picked up several fired patches to look at them. Most were complete, and slightly darkened, but not much. Rifling marks were very apparent. A couple were torn - looked like where the muzzle may have cut them when being shoved down. I may try some .015 patches if they make that size.

It's an xmas gift for my son, so I wanted to familiarize myself with loading and shooting procedures first. I thought the recoil of 50gr and 60gr Triple 7 was no biggie.. my son would not mind that at all.

Cleaned it when I got home, with a bunch of patches with steaming hot water, then a bunch of dry patches, then a couple patches with CLP on them. Now its put away until xmas.

It was fun, I can't wait to get one for myself.

You have just been bitten by the "black powder bug" Glad you had fun today and I'm sure there are many more to come.

Redards,
Silver Fox

You shouldn't give a used rifle to your son.
You keep that one and buy him another. That way you can shoot together. :wink:

Jim

Bender you done good. However you might like .015 patches and real BP better. Good for you and good luck. :thumbsup:

I'm sure your son will be tickled silly with that present. One day he'll look back on that gift and really appreciate you and the gun. :thumbsup:

If I was going to put the gun away till Christmas I would check the bore in a few days , if ya didn't get it well dried and oiled it can do a lot of rustin in 2 months.

Bender,

Sorry ta tell ya - yer ruint. Might as well go ahead and get another gun now so you and that boy can shoot together. It will be more fun for both of you if you're shooting together, it will be less like him doing it with you watching over his shoulder (great excuse, anyhow). Just explain to the wife that the "shooting together" thing is part of the Christmas present - be sure to go into extensive loving detail about how important this togetherness and passing down of manship knowledge is to the proper development of a man-child...
:thumbsup:
Spot

longrifle78 said:

If I was going to put the gun away till Christmas I would check the bore in a few days , if ya didn't get it well dried and oiled it can do a lot of rustin in 2 months.

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ok, will do. I think I read somewhere on this forum that Triple 7 wasn't as bad as real BP or pyrodex, though.
I need to buy some .50-cal patches this week. The .45-cal patches didn't really make a tight fit down the barrel. This weekend I'll run a couple dry patches to get out the CLP, then some steaming hot water again, then some dry patches again, then some CLP patches again... just like before, except this time with the right-sized patches.

I definately want a rifle for myself also. Don't know which one yet. When I have some ideas, I'll start a thread about them!

a fun morning at the range yesterday. Even though I only shot the muzzleloader maybe 12 times, I also had my swedish mauser with me (dated 1908). Shot a .75" 4-shot group with that at 100 yds. It has a 1941 swedish sniper scope on it - I can't shoot like that with open sights!

You need a properly sized cleaning jag for your ramrod( preferrably a range rod, made of one solid length of steel, brass, or aluminum alloy), and Real cleaning patches. DON'T try to use the pre-cut patches for patching a round ball for Cleaning your barrel.

777 is not less corrosive than Black Powder! Its much worse, and the powder itself draws moisture from the air. This is particularly bad in houses, because the humidity indoors is often so much higher than it is outside. ( cooking, baths and showers, etc. all add moisture to the warm air of a house daily) Black Powder is coated with graphite, which makes it much less likely to absorb moisture, unless water is put in direct contact with the powder.

Cleaning patches are sold in bulk. I use large, 3 inch square patches for all my guns until I get down to the 40 and smaller calibers. Then I use 2 1/4-2 1/2" diameter cleaning patches, made of flannel. You can buy flannel at a fabric store by the square yard, and cut your own cleaning patches. Or, make them out of old flannel sheets, shirts, or whatever. Flannel is flannel. The patch does not have the tight weave needed in a cloth patch that is wrapped around the RB. That is where pillow ticking, and pocket drill come to play.

But, your first concern has to be to buy and mount securely a properly sized loading and cleaning jag. Sometimes they don't match your bore diameter, and you have to chuck an oversized jag in a drill press and use a file to reduce it to the correct size. A jag grags the patch on the back stroke, not on the forward stroke. That is how you insure that the patch will be pulled out. A good jag will be " stepped " in the diameter of the bands, that is, the first band will be the largest in diameter, the next one will be a few thousandths smaller, then the next one will be a few thousandth's smaller than the second, etc. Most jags come with only 3-4 bands. Not all the jags that are sold commercially, or provided by the manufacturer, are stepped.

Stepping allows the fabric of the patch to close around the jag, so that it is caught by the tigher and tigher bands as the jag is being pulled out of the barrel. When the cloth is caught in the grooves between the bands, it is wedged, and then bunches outward, where it fits tightly in the grooves of the barrel, pulling out powder residue that has collected there.

Unless you are using a metal range rod, all jags need to be screwed into a ferrule that has been both pinned and glued to the wooden rod. Factories almost never pin those ferrules, and that is a source of grief for all new ML shooters. Sooner or later, the jag comes off with the ferrule down in the barrel and you are " stuck ". The brass ferrule is easily drilled and then pinned with a piece of nail or other thin metal rod, which can be peened over and then filed flush with the outside diameter of the ferrule.

thanks for all that info paul. I guess I should have used the ramrod for cleaning instead of my one-piece cleaning rod... There's a brass thingie in the patch box in the stock, I wonder if its a jag for the ramrod? I only looked at it once, but I remember it had a few bands.

I'll pick up some .50 patches on the way home from work today. Also, what is ballistol? I've seen it on this forum.

edit: I googled ballistol... it sounds like a "wonder lube" that does everything...

Its bad luck giving a used muzzleloader to your son. Better get a new one for him and keep the one you have.

HH

well, I'm telling you... I'd like to keep it for myself. It looks brand new, and its from the early 1970s... so it doesn't have the lawyer gobbledegook all over the barrel. In fact, the barrel only has "thompson center arms" and ".50 cal" on it... doesn't even have "black power only". Amazing.

bad luck

Bender: PLEASE! go on line to the Track of the Wolf site, and go through their catalogue. All the items they have for sale are clearly labeled so you know what we are talking about. Its obvious that you have no one close that can introduce you to this sport. There are hundreds of little details like those I have mentioned already that it helps to learn if you know someone into BP shooting who can just show you. Oh, Order a Dixie Gun Works Catalog, too. The information in the back of the catalog on BP guns is very worthwhile. Again, you can peruse the catalogue and learn all kinds of things, and what they are used for. Then if you have a question about the best tool to use, or whether something is needed for your gun, come back here and ask. That is the best way for you to learn until you find a gun club, or some other BP shooter near you who has more experience. That thing in the patch box sounds like a jag, from your description. You can use that ramrod that comes with the gun, under the barrel, in emergencies to load your gun. The rest of the time, you your range rod, and leave the wooden rod stay under the barrel in the pipes.

Bender said:

doesn't even have "black power only". Amazing.

bad luck

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Interesting--I'd never seen that particular political slogan on a muzzleloader. Maybe that inscription dates a gun bearing it to the Turner Rebellion of 1831?

the guy I bought it from is my shooting buddy. He has been shooting lots of years, he's over 70. He knows all about cleaning and maintaining BP rifles. He is giving me advice...
I didn't think there'd be a problem asking stuff here also.
I talked to him about it after I started this thread.

Hi Bender. First of all GOOD FOR YOU on giving a ML to your son. I'm a big believer in teaching our kids about the shooting sports including ML. Feel free to ask away on this forum questions about ML that you could not find in the search feature. Pretty much everyone here is willing to help one another out. :thumbsup:


{Whispering} Get yourself an Underhammer. You wont regret it. :grin:

HiBender,glad to hear about your BP experience. This is my first post and I as well just got into BP shooting two months ago. So far I have shot about 300 balls in my 50 cal Lyman. I started out with GOEX black powder and shot about a half of LB. Well the cleaning process was a pain. However I kind of like the big smoke and smell of it. That is until I got turned on to Pinacle powder by GOEX. This is the best thing since cotton candy. Where I used 8 patches to clean the barrel I now use one. The second one always comes out clean. I have shot 30 shots without a swap and when I did run a patch it wasn't hardly dirty as BP is.
I really recommend the Penacle powder for any one that is doing a lot of shooting like I am currently doing. Go to the GOEX BP site to get the details on it.

Just to end this note with a story my gunshop told
me is their gunsmith apparently shot 40 rbs using Penacle and the put the gun up for 30 days to see what would happen. When he cleaned it there was not sign of corosion. Only typicle black residue that you would expect. This also cleaned up with water and 1-2 patches. So that's my story and recommendation. Sorry to making it so long. If anyone else has experience with GOEX Penacle I would really like to hear it.

Have fun and take care.
City Limits

Welcome to the world of muzzle loading. I bought a .50 T/C Hawkens off one of the auction sites. When it arrived, it was in like new condition. I told the wife that I was giving it to our son-in-law for Christmas. He is already set up for .50 cal., since I built him a .50 Traditions Hawkens last Christmas. T/C quality is soooo much better. I went back to the auctions and got a nice .54 T/C Hawkens for myself. Check out Auction Arms:[url] http://www.auctionarms.com/[/url] and Gun Broker:[url] http://gunbroker.com/[/url] . You can usually find a good T/C for a good price.