NMLRA

Gentlemen:

I have been a member of the NMLRA for about 20 years, and it is time for me to renew. At the risk of committing herecy, I am thinking about passing. A number of factors are pushing me in this direction. For one, I think they have cranked the dues up to about 40 dollars a year. I think that is a little stiff for a 12-issue a year magazine subscription, and for me that is basically all it amounts to. It seems to me that for your 40 dollars, you get a few bucks off on a rent a car and a chance to use their range out in Indiana, a place where I will probably never go. Also, from where I sit, in an effort to create a big tent, they seem to do a lot of non-traditional features with a lot of in-line stories and advertizing.

I want to add that I am already a member of the NRA in good standing, and have been for at least 25 years. Also, I subscribe to Muzzleloader, which I consider to be a superior technical publication.

Should I decide to drop my membership, would I "letting down the team"? Can anybody give me some bit of information that would make me reconsider my position?

Thanks

La Longue Carabine
Mark Rice

:v And its not all that great a magazine anymore either. I dropped out several years ago and went to muzzleloader. miss the NAPR .and Black powder report. Bob

I wrote almost exactly the same post about 3 years ago...practically word for word, and did not renew.

I tried to order a sample copy of their magazine about 3 years ago to see if I would want to advertise in it. They were so hateful over the phone about why I was'nt already a member, that I decided not to spend any money with them. The attitude of the present management is why the NMLA is loosing members at an alarming rate.

I'll continue my membership for a number of reasons. The main concern that I have is that I don't have faith that the NRA won't make unfortunate deals to save other things. Suppose that there is pending legislation that goes after certain ammo, powder types, jacketed bullets, (add your own item.) It's not difficult to see the NRA say, "We'll give up black powder to keep hand loading components." If we were a major chunk of the NRA that would never happen. But - we're just a small chunk of the NRA, and maybe we're small enough to toss to keep a bigger chunk happy.

That reason is enough for me to stay with the NMLRA. I know there are those who would rather see traditional-only things in the mag. My choice is tradional too, but when the size of the membership means clout, I'll take everybody. I think it's a little like buying a duck stamp even if you don't go duckhunting.

None of this is meant to cause hard feelings. It's hard to express this without politics getting in. My appologies to the moderator if this is out of line.

Regards,
Pletch

I'll keep my membership, and be glad to have it. I readily admit I live pretty close to Friendship, and use that on occassion. I can understand the reluctance or frustration of shooters more distant, but if you go to the trouble of going to a National shoot, you'll be coming back. Heck, you can camp with me, I'll be glad for the company. You can't do everything at Friendship in a week, there are just too many shooting disciplines to master, or at least work at.
The top leadership of the Association goes to great lengths (pardon the pun) to represent every muzzleloader shooter in the country at major and minor shows and events across the country. They are open to new ideas, listen to all of the ideas I toss at them, both good and weird, and are as regular Joe and more down to earth as you could hope to find in a National organization. Is it perfect? Nah, of course not. But they keep plucking away at it. The association has changed a bunch from even 10 years ago. Give it a try.

I dropped my membership many years ago for many of the alreday posted reasons, and know many more who have done the same, but it is what is inside you that will make the call does the org. serve your needs and represent your values do you perseve any value in being a part of it?, do you feel you are supporting something you do not believe in by being a member? it has to come from you.

I read a post dated 3/2/2007 by Barbie Chambers, Vice-President of Jim Chambers Flintlocks & President of Buckeye Barrels:

If anyone has been interested in joining the National Muzzle Loading Rifle Association (NMLRA), but the cost has held you back (usual dues are $40), please send me an e-mail or give me a call. For the next month I can sign up NEW members for only $25!! This will not only get you a full membership, but also a 12 month subscription to Muzzle Blast.
So, just let me know!

Click to expand...

Her email address is: [email protected]
(There's an underscore between Buckeye and Barrels that invisible in the email link, it's Buckeye_Barrels)

Homepage: [url] http://www.buckeyebarrels.com/[/url]

A lot of folks said that they were sending her an email about it, or try giving her a call at the phone number listed on her business home page. :thumbsup:

Pletch:

I see your point. But I have my doubts about the effectiveness of the NMLRA as a lobbying group when their total membership is around 6000.

I do not trust politicians to protect gun rights, be it semi-auto or muzzleloader. And I know that the Brady Bunch likes to approach gun control using the "cook the frog by throwing him into lukewarm water first" method. But do you really think that the NRA would trade muzzleloaders for "assault rifles"? (I am using the media term here..I know what a real assault rifle is.) For that matter, would the gun-grabbers even be willing to make that trade? I realize that the example you cited was just for illustrative purposes, but don't the gun-grabbers have bigger fish to fry?

I belong to the NRA and the NMLRA. When it comes to muzzleloaders there is no one out there with the clout and seniority of the NMLRA. Boys, if you have not been paying attention, the political climate of this country is likely to change dramatically over the next few years. And I do believe that the political swing will not be one that favors private gun ownership in any form :shake: The most expedient way to have your voice heard is to become a member of the larger organizations that use their collective clout to lobby in Washington. Say what you want about the NMLRA, there is no other in this little niche of gun owernship that we occupy that is as strong. Yeah, $40 bucks a year for a magazine is a lot, but $40 bucks a year for a magazine and the ability to keep purchasing and posession black powder - that is a deal in my book. Renew your membership my man, and if there is an extra saw buck in your budget, send that along as well.

Pletch said:

I'll continue my membership for a number of reasons. The main concern that I have is that I don't have faith that the NRA won't make unfortunate deals to save other things. Suppose that there is pending legislation that goes after certain ammo, powder types, jacketed bullets, (add your own item.)

Click to expand...

I don't think that the mere existence of an organization is enough to promote political change. I believe you also have to have the funds and the organizational structure to make things happen.

I wasn't aware that the NMLRA did any political lobbying or had the funds to do so? Am I mistaken? (I'm not saying they don't, I'm only asking)

There are a lot of "clubs" out there, but they have no political power.

La Longue Carabine said:

Pletch:

"...But I have my doubts about the effectiveness of the NMLRA as a lobbying group when their total membership is around 6000.

Click to expand...

As a point of information, lobbying on a national scale such as we're thinkiing about here is actually a formally established and registered organizational operation.

The NMLRA has no registered lobbiests or registered lobbying organization like the NRA has...therefore the NMLRA has no official presence or recognition in Washington as the NRA has.

We all like to think and usually assume that such organizations are marching to the same beat that we are and are surely doing battle on our behalf in Washington...absolutley not the case...the NRA is the only nationally recognized voice that works on our behalf in Washington.

If the NRA folds, we are 100% alone and unrepresented.

"The NMLRA has no registered lobbiests or registered lobbying organization like the NRA has...therefore the NMLRA has no official presence or recognition in Washington as the NRA has"

I believe you are correct there, that org has no lobbying ability or interest, had they, it could have been used to promote traditional ML hunting seasons years ago,

I will renew my membership this year. I admit the main reason I joined and keep my membership is going to Friendship. I enjoy the event and I purchase my annual supply of BP there every year. That alone is worth it to me. Not that the reduced gate price is worth $40 bucks or I save that much on powder but supporting an organization that puts on an event like Friendship or territorial shoots is worth the $40.
To my knowledge it is not a political organization but rather an organization dedicated to promoting muzzleloading by way of competitive shoots and education? I think they do that so I will continue to renew.

Post Script: I'm not a competitive shooter, I just think it is important to BP shooting that there is an organization that keeps it out there in front of the public.

Claude, Roundball and all,
I am a member of both since '76 I think. I will always do both. If the NMLRA doesn't speak for us then I guess I think we're in a worse place than I thought. I firmly believe that when it comes to Washington "give and take", the low priority items are given up first. If you stack black powder up against semi-auto ahotguns (for instance) we lose in a heartbeat. And our enemy here doesn't mind small steps.

I hope our sport is safe for the moment, but all it would take would be a change in definition or change in transportation regs and we're at their mercy.

I do know a couple of folks at NMLRA that I will contact and ask questions about lobbying efforts. If they are not, it's time they did.

Claude, I'm glad you're in on this. I wasn't sure about the topic.

Regards,
Pletch

I don't think the NMLRA is allowed to lobby because they are a 501c3 nonprofit corp.
But for the same reason they were allowed to speak at the U.N. hearings on small arms (the NRA wasn't)
The NMLRA provides many members benefits other than Friendship. Territorials, national rendezvous, postal matches, winter nationals etc.
The leadership is changing for the better and is more than willing to listen to the members ideas.
As someone previously stated it isn't perfect but it does promote our sport to a wide varity of people better than anyone else. I doubt it will ever achieve perfection because we all have different ideas of what that would be!
Long winded way of saying yes please renew.

Pletch said:

Claude, I'm glad you're in on this. I wasn't sure about the topic.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I don't see this discussion as being about politics as much as it is about the current state of our "sport".

I also don't know too much about the NMLRA, so I can't judge it.

I miss NAPR too, bummer it folded.

WADR, Congress passed the Homeland security bill with the restrictions on shipping black powder, and the hazmat fees for shipping both black powder AND percussion caps. I don't know what more harm you can do short of banning Black powder firearms all together!

The NMLRA membership is at 19,000, down from over 24,000 when I first joined in 1969. I have always been sorry to see that. Much of it can be laid at the feet of some of the " leaders " in the 1970s, and 80s, who plundered the organization, showed no real leadership, and made no effort to improve either the magazine, or the shoots. All that has been changing since at least the mid 1990s. The grounds are in better shape than anyone could possibly have dreamed. Fund raising is receiving full time efforts. The new editor of Muzzle Blasts is slowly upgrading the quality of the articles, while still continuing the mission of letting members know what is going on in the association. By Comparison, Mozzleloader Magazine does not speak for any organization. It has nothing to report. It can use its space for regular columns on gun building, historical events, trekking, cooking and other issues relating to camp life, and have more articles on hunting . But Muzzleloader also only comes out 6 times a year. As much as I like the magazine, and particular the historical articles, I prefer to Join the NMLRA and subscribe to Muzzleloader magazine, too. In a perfect world, the two magazines would be combined for the same cost.

I am sorry you reached someone who was in a bad mood about calls for information the day you called. It happens in every business, and if you had called back, you would probably have received an appropriate apology. Somedays, none of us should get out of bed!

Whenever you do get poor treatment from someone on the phone, anywhere, you need to take it to their boss. Even with government, which can be the most rude of all people to talk to, you can always complaint to your local State Representative, or Senator's office, and they will look into the issue and try to get you the help you deserve. With the NMLRA, every state has at least one field representative. You can call them to start. Or just call Erik Bye, the Editor of Muzzle Blasts directly. He spends part of his time at his home in Vermont, and some time in Friendship. I have his email address in Vermont, if you would like to write him. No one should be treated rudely by anyone in business, and the NMLRA magazine staff is certainly in the business of selling advertisement spaces. Let me know if I can help you over those hurtles. I will be glad to help.

La Longue Carabine said:

Pletch:

... I have my doubts about the effectiveness of the NMLRA as a lobbying group when their total membership is around 6000.

Click to expand...

From the last numbers I've seen, your forgetting over 10,000 people. I think the number is over 17,000.

Yes, the NMLRA does not have a lobby. If it had more members, it might be able to afford to drop it's tax exempt status and hire some, but that sort of money takes membership numbers like the NRA has.
On the other hand, the NMLRA is working with the NRA to keep that organization on the muzzleloaders side. Of course, some of this working together envolves letting the NRA Black Powder Cartridge shooters use the range at Friendship.

The NMLRA does have monthly articles in MuzzleBlasts which address current and proposed laws in Washington dealing with Black Powder and Muzzleloaders so IMO, that is one of the benefits of being a member.

Is the magazine as good as it used to be?
IMO, compared with issues from the 1970's it is far better but prehaps not as good as some of the 1990's issues.

Is it worth $40 for membership?
I feel it is but each of you will have to decide that for yourselves.
zonie