gun prices

Cody,

Your thoughts, appropriate insight, nothing else to say, very well said.

RDE

I am just looking out for the working stiff. The guy who works 5 to 6 days per week the make the house payment, food on the table and clothes on the backs of his wife and children. Not to mention the cost of schooling for the kids. When I got out of the Army, I worked two jobs and went to school on the GI Bill to support my family. I want the working man to know he does not have to pay $500 to $600 for a Lyman GPR from some of the big name places. Thanks to the internet, there are other places that sell the same exact rifle for almost half that price. Lyman is a well established company that puts out a rugged production rifle. Personally, I'm retired and the kids are all gone, so my next rifle will be a custom made. Just remember our roots.

I don't buy the euro vs. dollar thing either. A little over a year ago, I (cringed) and shelled out $550 for a Cabela's Pedersoli double 12ga. It's my first and only ML (I'm

Well, I'm still pretty new to ML BP but I've been into guns for 18 years now and own 90+ of the things - many of which are C&R types.

When I go to buy one, I look at what I want out of it and then do research and then look for the best price on what I want.

As far as I can determine, beyond $600 you do not get a better ML - what you do get is eye candy or unique features or fit. But those can be acheived with some home gunsmithing if you're handy in the shop.

As said, there's nothing wrong with spending the money if that's your fancy as it will most likely be recoupable and yes, you may even make a small profit. I almost always do when I sell my guns.

O.S.O.K. said:

As far as I can determine, beyond $600 you do not get a better ML -

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How many properly fitted top quality custom guns did you use before drawing that conclusion?

what you do get is eye candy or unique features or fit. But those can be acheived with some home gunsmithing if you're handy in the shop.

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Sorry but that is just plain false. Short of changing lock, stock and barrel, you just can't get a T/C or GPR or whatever to feel and handle like a top quality custom. You can make a few minor architectural changes to the stock, add a few inlays and refinish the wood, but a new paint job will never turn a Ford Fiesta into a Mercedes SL 560. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with a T/C or GPR, I own a T/C and 2 GPR's, I'm just saying that there's a HUGE difference between them and a GOOD custom and the price difference is MORE than warrented.

My opinion is that it belongs to what you want. When I want a straight shooter with a good and accurate barrel and lock to an moderate price the GPR is first choice. I don't think a custom rifle shoots much better. All traders in GE which do in ML told me that the barrels even from cheap firms are not bad. The point where they get really cheap is the stock, lock, brass and finish.For my case I want only a straight shooter like the GPR, because weapons are tools for me. I don't decorate my drilling machine, so why my ML? :rotf:

O.S.O.K. said:

As far as I can determine, beyond $600 you do not get a better ML - what you do get is eye candy or unique features or fit. But those can be acheived with some home gunsmithing if you're handy in the shop.

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I'm not sure what you base your opinion on, but I respectfully disagree. I know some guys that are very "handy in the shop", but I wouldn't let them near my custom flintlock. :grin:

Sometimes you get what you pay for and I agree that if someone can't appreciate the attributes of a custom gun, they should save their money.

BTW, does anyone know what the castoff is on an off-the-rack GPR?

Kirrmeister said:

My opinion is that it belongs to what you want. When I want a straight shooter with a good and accurate barrel and lock to an moderate price the GPR is first choice. I don't think a custom rifle shoots much better. All traders in GE which do in ML told me that the barrels even from cheap firms are not bad. The point where they get really cheap is the stock, lock, brass and finish.For my case I want only a straight shooter like the GPR, because weapons are tools for me. I don't decorate my drilling machine, so why my ML? :rotf:

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Go to the Muzzleloading Nationals one day and count how many GPR's are on the line. Or any production rifle for that matter.

You gentlemen miss my point. I'm not trying to slam custom made smoke poles.

I shouldn't have said "you don't get a better ml" - because "better" is very subjective and personal.

The analogy of cars is good - a Honda Civic is a wonderful car that gets you from piont A to B very well. The European sports car or super luxury sedan are real nice, but they don't really get you from point A to B any better than the Civic.

That's my point.

Same can be said of custom bolt guns - most of them don't shoot any better than my Stevens 200 that I improved with a rifle basix trigger. 1/2 MOA is way more than I need to slay deer and spending $5K on the custom bolt gun IMHO is pointless. Sure, they are worth the money if you do really appreciate them. I just can't see spending the cash myself.

If you really like the fine wood and custom fit, etc. then more power to you! It's your money and we live in a (mostly) free country, so Enjoy! I like looking at the pictures

But the point of this thread is what one needs to spend to enjoy the sport - and it isn't in the thousands.

And I for one don't feel a bit poorer for not owning a custom ml. I'd rather own 10 nice ones than one super luxury model.

Just how I am.

I'm assumin' that since he has 90 some odd guns already, he's speakin' of the custom bolt action rifles, as currently made. They are just about all geegaws once the basic rifle has been made. The engravin' and gold inlays don't do anything for feel or handlin' but every custom rifle by a big name builder has a lot of 'em. :v

Slamfire said:

I'm assumin' that since he has 90 some odd guns already, he's speakin' of the custom bolt action rifles, as currently made. They are just about all geegaws once the basic rifle has been made. The engravin' and gold inlays don't do anything for feel or handlin' but every custom rifle by a big name builder has a lot of 'em. :v

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Yes, guilty as charged. I can see the custom ml way way before the custom bolt gun. I think there is more improvement in the custom ml, but not that much.

And my intentions with a ml are not to compete in serious matches so the small (but oh so important) incremental improvement attained isn't that important to me.

Life's too short to be seen with an ugly gun. :winking:

Before we beat this horse to death, one more comment.

When I consider the "value" of a custom flintlock, I never think of the superficial decorations that some of you keep mentioning. Those incidentals aren't what makes it "custom" to me.

I do consider how the gunbuilder will make the gun to my personal specifications. That is; it will be made for me to shoot, not just anyone. The cast-off, trigger pull, position of the rear sight, etc. are not things I can specify with an "off-the-rack" rifle.

It's kind of like buying a suit. I can buy one off the rack and it will "fit", or I can have one tailored to my measurements. Yes, they would both cover my body, but there's a difference that can be appreciated, by some.

Now, will a custom gun make me a better shot? Who knows; psychology is a funny thing. :grin:

I agree that all this is subjective and people should only spend money on things that are important to them. This is definitely an area where we can agree to disagree on what is of value. :v

Mike,
You're right! I think having an ugly gun will let a person appreciate a pretty one that much more. As soon as I get relocated, a nice custom rifle is the first thing on my list. Claude, where is that horse! I'm hungry :rotf: .

cowpoke1955 said:

Claude, where is that horse! I'm hungry :rotf: .

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Stick around, he'll be dead soon enough. :rotf:

Claude said:

BTW, does anyone know what the castoff is on an off-the-rack GPR?

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My crude measuring method on my GPR reaffirms my first guess. It indicates that the GPR does not have any cast built into the stock.

zonie

Excuse me Sir, but I talked about hunting rifles and not competiton rifles for high score shooting. That is not my branch.

Ya that may be true but as John H told a story here one time Ive seen the same thing happen...some really older guy comes to the shooting range with a beat up looking Rem #1 rolling block and shoots the blank out of centers the guys with the scoped hi buck shooting rigs (smokeless) cant walk because they cant pick their bottom jaw up off the ground. :rotf: love it, you had to see it. Fred :hatsoff:

Mike Brooks said:

Life's too short to be seen with an ugly gun. :winking:

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:rotf: :rotf:

82 airborne said:

I think you can tell a lot about someone
by the type of firearm they use.
In today's society people want something that is easy to use and doesn't require a lot of effort.
I have a friend that uses in-lines just to be able to hunt during ml season. He doesn't really care about M/L tradition. He just wants a way of staying legal so he can extend the hunting season for himself during M/L season.
Someone that prefers Traditional Muzzle loading is also making a statement.
They want a challenge when they hunt. They have to develop skills and hunting techniques.
They want to be self sufficient,( give me powder and lead and I'm on my way).
They must develop the skills of the frontiersman and the mountain man,( hard but very rewarding).
In today's society only a very few men will choose the M/L way. Simply because it is harder to do.

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I agree with 82 airborne, I have friends who chuckle at my old rifle and then say "ya someday I am gonna get one of those. But look how easy it is to drop in my little pill, ..gotta hurry out to hunt, and next year when they change the laws, I will put a scope on this." Quicker,easier,cleaner,quieter,cheaper,lighter...