.600 or .595 ball?

Mark Lewis said:

Patch the ball. It's way safer, and historically correct. Wads are not.

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For the record, MattS did not require an "historically correct" answer, I only offered the other choises as an option...

If one is concerned about the ball rolling forwards (even with an over-shot card in place), you could always double or tripple the card to make it hold stronger...

I would be more worried about this set-up in a double barrle than in a single bore gun, the recoil could move the ball in the unfired tube...

Musketman said:

Mark Lewis said:

Patch the ball. It's way safer, and historically correct. Wads are not.

Click to expand...

For the record, MattS did not require an "historically correct" answer, I only offered the other choises as an option...

If one is concerned about the ball rolling forwards (even with an over-shot card in place), you could always double or tripple the card to make it hold stronger...

I would be more worried about this set-up in a double barrle than in a single bore gun, the recoil could move the ball in the unfired tube...

Click to expand...

".....I would be more worried about this set-up in a double barrle than in a single bore gun, the recoil could move the ball in the unfired tube....."

And, this can also happen even with patched balls as well...particularly with those who like to load a loose patch/ball combination so they can easily be thumb started instead of having to use a short starter.

MM, IMO, your posts are always very open minded and informative, always willing to share information in an objective manner so a poster asking a question gets a variety of choices
:hatsoff:

I use a .610 ball - no patch

Just load it like shot, same powder charge, same wad setup - just go BOOM

Keeps everything simple

Hunting accurate to 40-50 yds

Just a shot charge with a small pellet count !
:grin:

A piece of hornet's nest.

Well, Bob Spencer, who probably has a bit more experience with smoothbores than you or i recommends the wads and bare ball loading method as an option. It is the method i use most often in my smoothbores because it is easier to load than a patched rd ball, and is more accurate in my gun. As long as you seat the wads and the ball on the powder, and get an overshot card on top, there isn't much chance of it moving, no more than with a shot load. I pour in powder then a thick overpowder wad. Then i start a half a lubed fiber cushion wad and center the ball on it sprue up and put an overshot card on and ram the cushion wad, ball, and overshot card down at once, on top of the overpowder wad. The wads keep the bore clean and lubed, and i can shoot all day without wiping using this method.

Mark Lewis said:

sooner or later you will end up with a gap. When that happens,.....BOOM!

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I think this reasoning could be used for ML in general and does not apply stictly to smoothbores. That's why a witness line is suggested.

gmww said:

Mark Lewis said:

sooner or later you will end up with a gap. When that happens,.....BOOM!

Click to expand...

I think this reasoning could be used for ML in general and does not apply stictly to smoothbores. That's why a witness line is suggested.

Click to expand...

Agree...and in particular I'm conscious of that on the rare occasions that I might hunt with a little .45cal maxi-hunter conical...they aren't very snug once the rifling has punched through the engraving band...that's really why any projectile should be checked periodically to ensure it's still seated to the witness mark as you said.

Thanks for all the advice guys!

I measure my bore today, it is a .615 bore. Subtracting .020 gives me a .595 ball. Turns out my wife already ordered me a .600 mold from Rapine, so i might try to call tomorrow and change it to a .595 mold.

I did try the .600 ball with a paper cartrige and liked how it loaded. Will the .595 be much looser? I do like the idea of being able to use my regular ticking patches, but wonder about the .595 ball on wads or the paper cartriges.

For patching right now, i have to use T-shirt amterial to even get the .600 ball down. I can barely even short start it with the walley world pillow ticking or leather chamois patches. I should measure the cast balls I am using from my friends gang mold to make sure of the size. He did gave me some commercial .600 balls as well and I am getting the same results with those.

Those rapine molds are not cheap, so I want to make the right choice.

Matt

"Patch the ball. It's way safer, and historically correct. Wads are not."

You may find that historicaly tow or some type of wadding was more common than patching for smoothbores, this is the feeling of some who have researched the matter and posted on another forum.

Since I use a .600 ball and a .010 patch normally, do you really think that an unpatched ball not seated directly against the powder would buldge the barrel?

Peronally I doubt it. The ball would have no real resistance besides it's relatively light weight..........and besides there is at least a .020 gap between the barrel and the ball. Pressure is bound to bleed around it.

Ridge said:

Since I use a .600 ball and a .010 patch normally, do you really think that an unpatched ball not seated directly against the powder would buldge the barrel?

Peronally I doubt it. The ball would have no real resistance besides it's relatively light weight..........and besides there is at least a .020 gap between the barrel and the ball. Pressure is bound to bleed around it.

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FWIW, and I'm certainly not an authority, but pressure is a funny thing...it may spike faster than that little bleed around could offset it, dunno...not somethoing I'd intentionally want to try.

My reason is that one thing has repeatedly amazed me for about 25 years of shooting trap & skeet...and that is that satrong modern steel barrels will burst due to a simple 1/2oz plastic wad that stopped half way down bore...it weighs nothing, so you'd think surely if another round was fired the pressure wave would hit and eject it as the weak link in the chain...not so...the modern steel shotgun barrel will burst as sure as the sun rises in the East.

FWIW, and I'm certainly not an authority, but pressure is a funny thing...it may spike faster than that little bleed around could offset it, dunno...not somethoing I'd intentionally want to try.[/quote]

I certainly wouldn't want to try it on purpose either.

And to be honest, I dont' know if it would or not either.

If I shoot a bare ball in my Carolina Smoothbore I must not use an Over shot card to hold the ball in...........The ball will push it forward while carrying and moving the gun about........I use a half a cushion wad to better hold the ball against the load column...................Bob

You would probably be better off using 2 over-shot cards to hold that ball in place, than using half a cushion wad. It all depends on the bore diameter of the gun in relation to the diameter of the wads you are using. I am using 19 gauge wads in my .20 ga. fowler, because my bore is oversized, and .20 gauge wads will not seal or hold well in it.

Lately I have been using powder, a wonderwad, then a 20 thou oiled patch and 595 ball, sprue up (as far as I can center it correctly) and this seems to have improved my accuracy, which is never better than two inches c-to-c at 25 yds, seems to be same whether offhand or bench. Fusil is a H. Dangler fusil fin, 42" barrel, I never miked it. Wonder wad and oil patch makes for clean barrel and easy loading.Homer told me he used spit patch ticking and a 600 ball himself. Good smoke, ron in Fl

I always suggest you mike the bore of the gun, so that you are not wasting time and money choosing the ball size. Off a rest, at 25 yds, the holes ought to be touching with a good load. What you are using now would work much better with a .135 card wad over the powder. You are not getting a proper seal of the gases with the wonder wad. It does hold lube well, and it distributes the lube along the entire barrel, keeping fouling soft, and easy to remove. But, you will get more consistent velocities( Standard Deviation of Velocity) if you use a card wad over the powder, and consider running a lubed patch down the barrel on after you seat the ball, or on a jag that you use to seat the ball. This patch is pulled out of the barrel, of course, but it lubricates the barrel in front of the ball, giving slightly more velocity but reducing the SDV down remarkably. If you sift your powder so that you are shooting consistent powder charges of just FFFg, or FFG, powder, your groups will improve dramatically.

If I were you, I would fire a load into a barrel of water so I can recover the ball. Then I would measure the ball to see how much " bump up" that .595 ball did with the charge in your barrel. It should show the pattern of threading in your patch in the lead where it contacted the barrel, but otherwise it should maintain its shape. If Homer Dangler recommended using the .600 diameter ball instead of the .595, I would try it. Homer was and is a meticulous gun builder, and I suspect he knows the diameter of every gun barrel he worked into a gun. Just using the .600 ball will improve your accuracy in a smoothbore.

I ran to walmart today and picked up some different fabrics to try. I got a few diffrent thicknesses of ticking, and some cotton muslin. I find the ticking is still very tight, but the muslin works very well. It was a little more money, but has a tight weave and is good fabric. A yard last a long time, so 4.77 isn't too bad. :grin:

I am going to stick with a .600 for now until I get more bench time in. i put a lot of thought into this, and they are shooting so well I don't want to mess with it until I learn the gun a bit more.

Later I may get a .595 mold to add to the collection, or talk my buddy into getting one and using it. I sure appreciate all the advice here, and will save it for future reference. I also look forward to trying the wads and cards. Fun learning something new.

I do have to say with 50 grains fffg, overshot card/ 1/2 wonder wad/ 70 grains of #6 shot/ overshot card it is a tight pattern at 25-30 yards. It should be a squirrel killer this fall. I want to pump the powder up a bit more for turkeys, but small game doesn't take much killing. I am getting good penetration with the load into the plywood backstop.

I think this smoothbore will find more trail time than my rifle. Much more useful for small game and birds.

matt, what is the thickness of the cotton muslin?

The muslin is measuring around .009 to .010, so it seems to be working well. I pulled some shot patches the other day and it wasn't burned through, although pretty discolored. I was getting pretty good accuracy out to 35-40 yards shooting at plastic bottles and cans. A lot different without a rear sight though!