• This community needs YOUR help today. We rely 100% on Supporting Memberships to fund our efforts. With the ever increasing fees of everything, we need help. We need more Supporting Members, today. Please invest back into this community. I will ship a few decals too in addition to all the account perks you get.



    Sign up here: https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/account/upgrades

In keeping with my untarnished history of dumb questions...

Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

noahmercy

40 Cal.
Joined
Nov 20, 2004
Messages
290
Reaction score
0
here's a new one:

I just went to an easier-loading combo in my GPR .54, consisting of a .530" ball and .015 cotton twill (As opposed to the .535"/ .020" pillow ticking combo I was using previously). I retrieved some fired patches and they looked rough. They weren't cut (I've been running JB Bore Paste down the barrel after every range session, and the barrel is getting well polished), but they were frayed to the max and partly burned[url] through...in[/url] other words, ugly.

The groups, on the other hand, were splendiferous (it's a word...look it up!). They were the equal of my tight combo, and I can skip using a short starter...saves some time and hassle at the bench.

So my feeble-minded question is this...does it matter what your patches look like as long as the gun is grouping well? My feeling is that the results are all that matters, but I recall that I may have been wrong about something once...

Thanks in advance for your input, folks!

:thumbsup:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
When I order the mold for my .54 rifle that I'm going to have built, it will be a .520. Smaller balls and thicker patches are where it's at. If your gun is shooting well, and it's easy to load, that's the most important thing.
 
Heck, try the smaller balls with the thicker patches. Then try the bigger balls with the smaller patches. Then try...

It's all fun!

I'd go with the best group. :hatsoff:
 
As always, I'm much obliged for your replies! :grin:

I suppose I misstated about the fraying...I meant that the edges were uniformly frayed about 1/4" back towards the center (round patches). I actually figure that's the "maximum" a patch should be frayed, hence my statement "frayed to the max".

I'm thinking a .525-.527" ball with .020" ticking should be the bee's knees for a combination of ease of loading and accuracy. Since I already have a .530" and a .535" mold, the addition of a smaller one would give me an almost unlimited number of possible combinations and more excuses to shoot!

:thumbsup:
 
It's my understanding that the "fraying" happens after it leaves the barrel,,, when the work is done.
Burning, holes, and cuts are from failure to do the job in the bore. That wouldbe a problem.

I couldbe wrong,, thought I was before but was mistaken. ( :grin: )
 
I'll see yer dumb(?) question and raise ya one! did switching balls and patches make any diff when cleaning the gun? dirtier? easier? I'd still go w/ best group just curios about if'n it got a lil dirty or not RC
 
twotoescharlie said:
no such thing as a "dumb question".
you learn by asking,watching and doing.

TTC

You have 23 posts Charlie, hang around for a while and we will change your mind. This is an amazing place!

Example:
querry, What is holdover?

answer 1: good explaination
answer 2: even better explaination
Answer 3: Explaination that should be considered classic!

reply of querry: No really, what is holdover?

:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
 
How do, RC. To tell you the truth, the gun cleaned up with only 4 patches after 20 shots (with no swabbing during that string). I'm shooting 2f and that is about the same number of patches it takes to clean after shooting my tight ball/patch combo. I think a great deal of the credit for the easy cleaning has to go to the JB Bore Paste I used to "deep clean" the barrel after the first half-dozen range sessions as well as the Ballistol/water moose milk and straight Ballistol I use for regular cleaning and preserving. The gun loads and cleans easier since I went to this stuff. I know it has some detractors on this forum, but my results have been exceptional and I recommend it to all my muzzleloading and black powder cartridge shooting buddies.

:thumbsup:
 
My guns never clean up as easy as I see here. It takes me about an hour or more and many patches. It don't matter whether I clean with a solvent or hot soapy water.
Old Charlie
 
riarcher said:
It's my understanding that the "fraying" happens after it leaves the barrel,,, when the work is done.

Perhaps not, the patch is subjected to extremely high centrifugal forces as the rifling spins it at high velocity, this and the edges are loosely weave from being cut to shape all plays a key factor in the fraying of the cloth...

Also, the leading edge of the patch (in front of the ball) is exposed to the onrush of air resistance as it is forced out the barrel, we would look a little frayed too if we were exposed to such conditions... :grin:
 
Charlie,
Lot's of things contribute to how fast a bore shines.
Smoothness, depth of rifling, twist, lube, weather, size & thightness of cleaning patch/jag, brand and amount of powder and such.
Have a .45 that takes forever to really clean.
Also have a Bess that is almost self-cleaning,,, well in comparison anyways.
I find heavily greased (thick grease like BB, not the thin stuff like Spit-lube) helps a lot. But it's not a cure all.

On the fraying;
The fraying edge would be held together by the rushing of the ball down the bore, actually pushing and holding it all together on the leading edge. UNLESS you're getting a lot of blow-by, then you'd be burning the patch with the hot gasses.
(Just my thoughts - no real science to prove it.)
Still believe fraying is after the muzzle.
Then again, my simple mind has gotten me on the wrong path many times before.
 
And remember that a PRB doesn't even make a single complete revolution prior to muzzle exit in the bore/twists that I'm aware of...I would vote for the violent wind blast that hits it at muzzle exit.

Example:
2000fps/mv X 60seconds = 120,000fpm X 60minutes = 7,200,000fph divided by 5,280ft in a mile = 1,363 mph wind blast...(if my math is right)...basically a MACH/2 muzzleblast.

PLUS...there's the outbound jet of hot burning gases blasting out past the patch at muzzle exit too...I guess it's amazing there's anything left of a patch to find at all.

:shocked2:
 
I tried .530s and .18 patches with bore butter and it shot well. I am now using .526 balls with .18 pillow ticking and bore butter. Shoots just as accurately but easier to load, especially with the coned muzzle. I still get more fouling than I would like. Tried spit patches with the same result. using fffg btw. about 75 grains. any suggestions on what else might reduce the fouling??
 
How do, all.

I'm using Hoppes #9 Plus for lube. I've been sticking the patches in a container and squirting a bit of lube on them and letting them soak up the juice so they are uniform. I just got back from the range after shooting 60 rounds with no swabbing between shots. My last group at 50 yards (off a bench rest, mind you) could have been covered by a fifty-cent piece. It took six patches to fully clean the bore.

When I first shot this gun, I had to swab after three shots and it still took a couple dozen patches to get the bore clean when I got home.

My buddy went with me today and his new Lyman was so hard to load and fouled so easily that he left his gun with me to deep clean and polish. After watching me load the 60th round without using a short starter and seeing how well the gun shot, he thinks "I might be onto something". :grin:

I'm planning on coning my muzzle soon to really ease the loading chore. I intend to do some serious chronograph and target work before and after to see if any measurable differences exist. I'll post the results on the forum for anyone who might be interested.

I have ceased worrying about the appearance of my patches as long as the groups stay tight. However, I did up the charge to "elephant-stopper" levels today and my groups weren't particularly stellar. I found some of those patches and they had some large holes burned completely through them. So if I want to use the easy-loading ball/patch combo for hunting (with heavier charges of powder), I'll have to use some hornets' nest or a wad betwixt the powder and patch. (Which might not be a bad idea anyway to prevent lube migration to the powder... :hmm: )

Man, there's a ferocious learning curve to this muzzleloading stuff! But don't worry...I'll be an expert by the time I'm 639 years old...

:thumbsup:
 
There are no dumb questions.
Now, I've seen some ridiculous ones and a few stupid ones but, no dumb ones. :rotf: :grin: Just kidding. :)

roundball: You forgot the twist.
Not only is the ball moving at 1363 miles an hour but if it is shot out of a 1:60 twist barrel, the same ball in your calculations is spinning at:
1 rev in 60 inches/12 inches = 1 rev/5 feet. 2000 FPS/5 feet = 400 rev/second X 60 sec/min = 24000.0 RPM.

No wonder the patch is a frayed. :rotf: :grin:
 
don't think you will change my mind. I will be 69 years old in about a month and have been shooting muzzleloaders since I was 20 years old.

TTC
 

Latest posts

Back
Top