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Volume vs weigt

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Probably an OLD question but...

40+ years reloading metallic cartridges, powder is always by weight. Just getting into black powder, powder is now volume. My powder measure is calibrated in increments of 5 grains. If I want 18 grains, do I just measure the space between15 and 20 and scratch a line, or is there a better way? Is there an equal weight of FFFg to 18 grains?
 
It depends on the powder!

I scratch a line. I also always use volume and have consistent results. The issue is that all powders are not created equal. I currently have three different manufacturers powders in the box and all use a slightly different load volume wise for the same result. Swiss is the best and most consistent in size and measure and all the grains are very consistent. The English powder i have is quite the opposite. What this means is i can weigh the Swiss if i want and the volume is the same and visa versa, but the English , not so. Home made even less so.
I would trial and error each powder you use and try a volume measure against weighted charges to see which works best.
Plus...not all powder measures are created equal either so with the differences in powder and measures be wary of others load recommendations, they will be close but may differ from yours.
Then you can balance all these admittedly very sight differences in to your actual shooting ability, it may make no noticeable difference in your results in a pistol offhand but a very noticeable difference in a long range rifle bench rested.
Yes....it is a black art.
 
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Black powder is always measued by volume. Substitutes such as Pyrodex are designed to give similar results for the same volume, even though they will have slightly different weights for any given volume.

Metallic cartridges are outside of the scope of these forums, but I'll go so far as to say they, too, are loaded by volume. Cases get filled to capacity, with the bullet slightly compacting the powder, just as in a muzzleloader.

IMO, trying to measure by weight is just complicating things by adding an extra step, since you will need to measure by volume, weigh it, adjust for accuracy, then convert back to volume for reloading from a horn or flask.
 
I'm somewhat the opposite, in that I've shot muzzleloaders and black powder for years, but am only beginning to enter the world of cartridge reloading. My approach has been:

If shooting ML, to just simply ignore everything I know about measuring for cartridges (by weight) and measure powder by volume. I use one specific adjustable measure until I find a load I like. Then I make a fixed measure that throws that same volume based on that measure. Granted, this doesn't make it easy to adjust by single-grain increments. I tend to go roughly by 5-grain increments, and then 2.5-ish increments if needed.

If you want more specifity, then I would take a small powder scale to the range and measure by weight on -site. Once you find your load, make a measure that throws that charge and call it a day.
 
I load my rifles from pre weighed charges that are kept it plastic tubes. Not historically correct but I use my rifles to hunt and target shoot and this works best for me. I also enjoy sitting at my bench and weighing them. Whatever you do consistency is the key. Develop a load and repeat it in every detail. I have a system down now for each of my rifles that I follow exactly for each shot. I do have one 32 caliber rifle that I milled a spout down to throw 15 grains of 3F Goex and that speeds up the process. It will throw +or_ .2 grains every time. I still have to put the powder in a seperate vial before putting in the rifle so I just do all of that at home. Makes range time very productive.
 
I have pistol measures that are marked by 2 grains. Most currently for sale are scribed of 5 grains. You can find such small measures. but you need to search.

Black powder (and the substitutes) should be measured by volume.
 
Short answer, yes you can scratch a mark go on with life. If you are after accuracy, then read the long answer.

Long answer-
NO, bp is NOT always measured by volume. In the realm of competition shooting, many competitors will weigh each charge. The reason is "fines" are part of the charge and if the powder has a large variation in the size of grains going through the sieve, then the fines will change the velocity, hence accuracy. That's partly what you're paying for with more expensive powder like Swiss and Old E. It's all about controlling variables.
 
They have measures that have finer adjustments for individual grains. Another thing is if you compare 3 measures from different manufacturers, you likely get 3 different grain equivalents for the same amount of grains marked, if you were to weigh them.

Even with smokeless powder, they usually don't weigh every charge(except for bench shooters) they set up their volume meter and adjust it until it comes out the weight they want, then go from there doing occasional checks of weight.
 
I can find no reference to "volume" before the substitutes arrived on the scene. Black powder, and all shooting powder, is measured by weight, usually grains. The only time "volume" is useful is when you use substitutes, because you use an amount of the substitute that takes up the same volume (space) as the black powder load. Substitutes generally weigh less than the same volume of black powder, so you use a "volume equivalent".

I have never found a store-bought adjustable powder measure with an accurate scale. I have three or four of them, and they do not throw the same weight of powder when set at the same number. They are rough approximations at best. You can throw consistent charges from them, but they don't necessarily throw the charge that you think. You can only know by verifying the charge weight with a scale.

In any serious shooting I do, target or hunting, I weigh every charge. Consistent loads under consistent round balls nestled in consistent patches produce consistent groups.

ADK Bigfoot
 
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I make my powder measures. If I want a 50 grn measure I drill the measure out then pour powder into it, then weigh the dump on a scale. I keep drilling til I get 50 grns. I do this with all the measures that I make. I use a simple broom handle. Cut them to length and drill them out, shape them on a belt sander a little. Broom handles are usually hard wood and they work well for powder measures. I've made them for 15 up to 80 grns. I write the grn weight onto the measure with a ball point pen. They throw consistently, at least for my purposes.
 
It depends on the powder!

I scratch a line. I also always use volume and have consistent results. The issue is that all powders are not created equal. I currently have three different manufacturers powders in the box and all use a slightly different load volume wise for the same result. Swiss is the best and most consistent in size and measure and all the grains are very consistent. The English powder i have is quite the opposite. What this means is i can weigh the Swiss if i want and the volume is the same and visa versa, but the English , not so. Home made even less so.
I would trial and error each powder you use and try a volume measure against weighted charges to see which works best.
Plus...not all powder measures are created equal either so with the differences in powder and measures be wary of others load recommendations, they will be close but may differ from yours.
Then you can balance all these admittedly very sight differences in to your actual shooting ability, it may make no noticeable difference in your results in a pistol offhand but a very noticeable difference in a long range rifle bench rested.
Yes....it is a black art.

Good info there from start to finish.

There's one scenario where I use a scale and that's when I want to make a matching powder measure. I use an adjustable measure for load development and then weigh the charge. The matching measure is adjusted by tuning it to throw a charge of matching weight when filled with my powder horn.

I discovered this method while making a matching measure for hunting with a specific rifle. Initially i adjusted the matching measure by pouring powder from the adjustable measure into the one I was making until it filled it perfectly. Being the curious type, I weighed the charges from both measures. I was surprised to find that the measure i had just made held 6 grains less by weight. Obviously the difference between pouring out of the horn made a difference. Probably because of differences in how the powder settles into the measure.

I believe that international competitions require that all charges be pre measured into tubes. As long as that's necessary, one may as well use a scale in that situation.
 
I have never found a store-bought adjustable powder measure with an accurate scale. I have three or four of them, and they do not throw the same weight of powder when set at the same number. They are rough approximations at best. You can throw consistent charges from them, but they don't necessarily throw the charge that you think. You can only know by verifying the charge weight with a scale.

This is true but they work just fine as long as you don't interchange measures and expect the same results. The variables between the actual weights of charges thrown by various measures is not important if you stick with the measure used to develop the load. Also, changing powder brand as well as granulations changes the actual weights.

One of my hunting rifles shot well from the 90 grain mark on an adjustable measure. When I weighed the charge it was 97 grains. Did it matter? No :)
 
It depends on the powder!

I scratch a line. I also always use volume and have consistent results. The issue is that all powders are not created equal. I currently have three different manufacturers powders in the box and all use a slightly different load volume wise for the same result. Swiss is the best and most consistent in size and measure and all the grains are very consistent. The English powder i have is quite the opposite. What this means is i can weigh the Swiss if i want and the volume is the same and visa versa, but the English , not so. Home made even less so.
I would trial and error each powder you use and try a volume measure against weighted charges to see which works best.
Plus...not all powder measures are created equal either so with the differences in powder and measures be wary of others load recommendations, they will be close but may differ from yours.
Then you can balance all these admittedly very sight differences in to your actual shooting ability, it may make no noticeable difference in your results in a pistol offhand but a very noticeable difference in a long range rifle bench rested.
Yes....it is a black art.

Olde Eynsford by Goex is rather similar in mass/weight and performance. My old adjustable rifle measure dropped 30 grns of 3F which weighed 33 grns. I broke it and got a new one. This one seems almost spot on to the volume/weight.

Being a rifle measure it’s incremented by 10’s so I scratch a line for the 5’s and eyeball the 2.5 grn middles, which I hadn’t don’t to the previous one. I’m no match shooter so 2.5 grn increments is enough for me. Time to better tune my two pistol’s more accurate hunting loads...
 
I usually find a load by using measurements by volume. Sometimes I'll weigh the load after I've made a measure holding the volume decided upon. In my experience black powder is very forgiving and eager to please.
 
I load my rifles from pre weighed charges that are kept it plastic tubes. Not historically correct but . . . . .
The plastic may not be historically correct, but use of pre weighed charges is! 👍

19thC riflemen used glass phials to carry their pre weighed charges. There’s lots of historical reference to this in literature regarding long range target shooting, and surviving range boxes. See: Muzzle Loader Range Box on my web site.

David
 
The plastic may not be historically correct, but use of pre weighed charges is! 👍

19thC riflemen used glass phials to carry their pre weighed charges. There’s lots of historical reference to this in literature regarding long range target shooting, and surviving range boxes. See: Muzzle Loader Range Box on my web site.

David
IIRC, the matchlock guys carried their charges in vials strung on bandoliers over the shoulder.

But back to the original question- I shoot North South Skirmish Association competition. When I'm doing load development, I weigh each and every charge and every boolit. It's about constraining variables for best quality information. For competition use in a skirmish where fast firing is the order of the day, I set a powder measure to drop that weight of powder and move along but I do check weights about every 20rnds or so. For individual competition where accuracy, not speed, is the deciding factor, I weigh every charge and boolit, just as in load development.
 

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