Negativity towards Traditions guns

Anything or anyone who can make smoke and hit a pie tin at 25 yards is a fellow buckskinner/longhunter/mountain man ... hail fellow well met. From a raggedy old preacher who loves smokepoles and them as use 'em. Polecat

The plastic stock are where I draw the line.

I don’t care if it’s got a sidelock and iron sights, if it’s got a plastic stock that’s just NOT traditional, and I don’t want anything to do with it.

A few of my favorites. Several I made from kits. Love to make 'em; love to shoot 'em; love to just sit and tell li--- well, stories about 'em. Polecat

I am OK with plastic stocks, but you guys who make coffee in any pot really infuriate me. You need a French Press, and I do not care if your persona is British!

hunter thompson said:

Traditions trapper pistol is extremly accurate..they shoot good..the steel is soft.... so thats why i got 700 shots from it as did another guy with one.BUYER beware of all guns and their forged or non forge parts.Most average people wont shoot a 1000 times ,,so there it is.

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This is an informative and well articulated warning about Traditions that I didn't know. Thank you.

TNGhost said:

I think most of what is said custom v production, flintlock v caplock, etc. is mostly in jest and just ribbing.

Unfortunately that is a concept lost on many today. I own guns of all ilks so it matters not to me and it doesn't bother me other than to amuse me, as the best gun, is the one you have when you want/need it.

There used to be an old saying when I grew up: "Sticks and stones will break my bones, but names will never hut me."

Whatever happened to that saying and philosophy puzzles me to this day.

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I was simply trying to take up for anyone that feels "non worthy" with their cheaper production gun. I wasn't whining

Carbon 6 said:

I think it's divisive and fosters animosity. Threads like this come up about every other month and do nothing but make people angry.

If you are complaining on social media you definitely aren't out shooting.

Go shoot, have fun, stop being a Karen.

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I deal with more than the average on a daily basis and do it without whining. I used to be very temperamental and been in more fist fights than I can count, win some and lost some, but since my life changing situation 9 years ago, I've changed. I was simply suggesting that some of the snobbery towards cheaper production guns could make guys feel inferior and discourage them from using this site and/or joining a muzzle loader club. I didn't even shed a tear when I fell 20 feet, broke and severde my spinal cord, laid in the hospital for a week before the swelling to cease for surgery, or complain when the dope pump would't give me pain meds. I had people cry for me, but I never and have't shed a tear.
Now good critism, like a fellow just wrote about the Traditions Trapper pistol only lasting for 700 shots, is perfectly fine and appreciated.

LuVerne Schumann said:

I lived that butt pain. My first two guns were a CVA percussion and flint. The percussion was dead nuts accurate and I would still have it today if it hadn't been stolen. The CVA flint couldn't hit a barn from the inside.

On the so-called cheap gun shaming. I've seen way more threads on this board started by drama queens with affordable guns freaking out because someone dared to question the HC or value of said cheaper guns, than of people actually shaming anyone because they shoot and like the less expensive options.

I live on both sides of the issue and frankly think it's overstated.

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I got your drama queen

JB67 said:

The OP is right. Just look at the responses when someone asks about getting a Traditions kit as a first gun. Invariably one or several will call them junk and tell him to save for a gun that costs 4x the price. They offer nothing constructive and certainly don't contribute to encouraging beginners.

They are a small minority, but sometimes it only takes one snob to kill someone's enthusiasm.

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Thank you sir!

Grenadier1758 said:

Now then, as to negativity towards shooters of Traditions Rifles, I am a member of a traditional muzzle loading gun club. We welcome those who want to join the club and it doesn't matter if the rifle is a well used Traditions Rifle or a multi thousand dollar custom rifle as long as the rifle is traditional side hammer, underhammer or side hammer. Some of our best shooters use factory rifles from T/C, CVA, Lyman, Invest Arms or Pedersoli et al. We want to encourage the sport as well as the history. I am not about to disparage the accuracy of a rifle with a Jukar barrel. I may remark about the quality of the flint locks, but I have seen some real fine shooting by people with an old CVA rifle.

When I reenact, one of the members of the unit requires a motorized chair to get around. He brings a lot of knowledge of history and experience. I know several people who need wheel chairs that go to Rendezvous. They are welcome. They may not be able to participate in the Woods Walks but they share in camaraderie and experience in the camp.

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Thank you sir. I'm in a wheelchair but love my club's monthly matches, rendezvous, and all my muzzle loaders and cap n ball pistols. I hunt quite successfully from my small 300 atv. I have to get started way earlier than before, idial into my spots, spray scent control all around, wrap the front and rear with camouflage burlap tarps, and sit like a ninja (face paint n all), but I killed 3 deer last season. I have killed at least 1 each season over the past 9 yrs. I'm a fighter for sure, refuse to quit.

Smokey Plainsman said:

The plastic stock are where I draw the line.

I don’t care if it’s got a sidelock and iron sights, if it’s got a plastic stock that’s just NOT traditional, and I don’t want anything to do with it.

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Well, simply never buy one. But let young people with limited resources purchase one and use it in peace. I understand now, why the muzzle loader sport is dying out.

I appreciate most the responses I read to the OP. I sure appreciate the fellow that informed me he only got 700 shots from a Traditions Trapper pistol like I own. That was good criticism and welcome in my book.
I only made the original post to try and help preserve our sport and attract new comers. We need to build our numbers. Do you guys realize how small our sport is? I'm only 42 years old and the youngest at my club. We need to attract young people, even if they decide to buy a Traditions with a plastic stock as their first gun. Give them time, and they may build a custom or buy one once they fall in love with the smell of black powder, the accuracy, and all the fun in loading-shooting-and even cleaning their gun afterwards.

In conclusion: I stand by my original post, appreciate everyone's input.

Hawk78 said:

Well, simply never buy one. But let young people with limited resources purchase one and use it in peace. I understand now, why the muzzle loader sport is dying out.

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Last time I checked this is the traditional muzzleloading forum.

I didn’t know plastic stocks were traditional.

If you don’t wear Air Jordan’s on an urban neighborhood basketball court you’re going to get ribbed. If you have a 40’ yacht in a marina full of 100’ yachts your going to get ribbed. It’s the way of the world and this same thing can be found in nature. It’s the way of things.

At risk of sounding elitist, my prized rifle is an Allen Martin. Guys who’ve watched my channel know this. I’ve always wanted one and I scrimped and saved and made it happen. To a guy who can’t afford one, I’m one of ‘those’ guys. But I can only afford one of his ‘Schimmels’ or basic rifles and I had to make lots of sacrifices to have it. There are many guys with more and better guns than I have, who say, “Schimmels aren’t HC”, “No evidence can be found in the record that any PA gunmaker ever made a gun like that” and on and on. Sorry, I can’t afford a custom gun with all the beautiful furniture and inlays. Some guys would never reach so low, and some can never reach so high. There are many folks who watch you shoot your Traditions at the range who envy your ability to afford one, and we’ll always, in a group big enough, take a little flak. To be annoyed or bitter about this is, if I may borrow your ‘bleeper’ button, p____ing in the wind.

Don’t take this the wrong way Hawk. I just don’t see a solution and hate to see you get worked up when there’s nothing to be done. Like grandpa used to say, "trying to fix the world's problems is like trying to put socks on a Rooster"......

Good marksmanship counts for something. i was present when Frontier's drilled a wild sow through the center of the heart. Bang flop.

Bob McBride said:

If you don’t wear Air Jordan’s on an urban neighborhood basketball court you’re going to get ribbed. If you have a 40’ yacht in a marina full of 100’ yachts your going to get ribbed. It’s the way of the world and this same thing can be found in nature. It’s the way of things.

At risk of sounding elitist, my prized rifle is an Allen Martin. Guys who’ve watched my channel know this. I’ve always wanted one and I scrimped and saved and made it happen. To a guy who can’t afford one, I’m one of ‘those’ guys. But I can only afford one of his ‘Schimmels’ or basic rifles and I had to make lots of sacrifices to have it. There are many guys with more and better guns than I have, who say, “Schimmels aren’t HC”, “No evidence can be found in the record that any PA gunmaker ever made a gun like that” and on and on. Sorry, I can’t afford a custom gun with all the furniture. Some guys would never reach so low, and some can never reach so high. There are many folks who watch you shoot your Traditions at the range who envy your ability to afford one, and you’ll always, in a group big enough, take a little flak. To be annoyed or bitter about this is, if I may borrow your ‘bleeper’ button, ______ in the wind.

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I like you Bob and your channel. If you read my update on the op, you will see what I am trying to get at. This forum pops up for many, many questions I have googled. I just simply saying that to attract new comers good critism is welcome for buying decisions, but try not completely scare a young person from getting into the sport with a cheap gun to start with. Give em time to grow and save money for a better one like I did.

seams nobody likes the inexpensive brand's of muzzleloaders, because they don't put them into the same hole or shoot minute of angle, yes that is a big word that most of us will get, well I say so what? just be thankful that you are in a country that you can follow your hobby of shooting black powder guns and making Smoak and have fun with friends and without any body saying, oh I see that you have one of those-TRADITIONS, CVA,S, MIROUKO,S, JUKAR, ETC. why is that? don't tell me that is the nature of the beast. so lets see how many bring out into the woods there $2000+ $ guns and beat the brush to get a rabbit to run out with it?

Hawk78 said:

I like you Bob and your channel. If you read my update on the op, you will see what I am trying to get at. This forum pops up for many, many questions I have googled. I just simply saying that to attract new comers good critism is welcome for buying decisions, but try not completely scare a young person from getting into the sport with a cheap gun to start with. Give em time to grow and save money for a better one like I did.

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Thanks. I completely agree with you and your point is certainly valid. I just wish there was an answer that was a bit easier than training everyone to be thoughtful.

It isn't just the shooters, it can be the organisation that 'fosters the interest in muzzleloading'. I'm not in any such organisation, and the reason is a simple and very basic one. I visited the organisation's publicity stand at one of the gun shows we used to have here in UK back in the late 80's/early 90's - something that may even have impressed an American. The older gentleman on the stand, which was liberally sprinkled with some truly toothish hardwear dating back to the Volunteer era of British target rifle shooting, asked me if I was a muzzleloading shooter, and if so, what did I shoot. At that very moment I was was looking at a genuine Whitworth match rifle and mentioned that I had a Parker-Hale replica. 'Oh, a replica......most of us shoot a genuine Whitworth, in fact, I myself have three...'

The frost descended on the conversation instantly - I was made to feel that I was the maestro piano-player's page turner, and I didn't like it one bit. That one piece of put-downship cured me for life of dealing with snobs in the world of shooting.

pondoro said:

I am OK with plastic stocks, but you guys who make coffee in any pot really infuriate me. You need a French Press, and I do not care if your persona is British!

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How about an Aeropress?

I like all traditional muzzleloaders, I do however cringe at guns with plastic stocks, sights, and ramrods, but it's not the person who owns it that rubs me wrong, it's the manufacturer. You can call it a gateway gun or a beginners gun or just affordable but don't call it"traditional", because anytime a manufacturer uses plastic, they are just "phoning" it in, cost cutting or in some cases skirting the law in a particular market.

That's my opinion.