Newbie questions about rust/corrosion

I've collected a few MLBP replicas and want to try them out. I'm planning to buy quality aftermarket nipples before shooting anything.

What are people's opinions about non corrosive BP substitutes? I'm not planning on doing historical reenactments at this point, so big clouds of smoke and corrosive residue is not something I want. I can live with the smoke, but would prefer to not have the corrosive residue after shooting.

Are modern caps usually non corrosive? I know with metallic cartridges, primers were usually the source of corrosive residue in older commerical and especially military ammunition.

Cleaning products/solvents and oils. I've been out of the shooting world for awhile and I've heard that some oils and cleaning products are now water based and can cause issues with long term storage. One example is the US military LPS. Again, historical accuracy is not a concern, just keeping my guns rust free. What are people's favorite cleaning and oiling products on here?

Uh oh he said "non corrosive BP substitutes". I'm backing away slowly lol!

Shoot BP, neutralize and remove residue with water or a water based BP cleaner and +/- a dozen cleaning patches, dry thoroughly, apply oil or RIG. Reapply oil or grease tomorrow. Shoot again the following day. Repeat until the trumpets sound.

HandyAndy said:

What are people's opinions about non corrosive BP substitutes?

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There are no non corrosive black powder substitutes. Some are less corrosive than others. However, all are capable of damaging your black powder gun under certain conditions.

Folks who clean their guns soon after firing have no problems with corrosion caused by black powder or the substitutes.

There are lots of really good gun oils out there. i use Militec 1.

Modern caps are non corrosive.

Good luck with your muzzleloader experience.

It sorta sounds like you want to shoot yer rifle, then put it away without cleaning it and not have it rust. Not gonna happen. I won't get on my "no oil" in the bore rag, but there are many barrel preservatives that don't have oil in them and work well, such as T/C wonder Lube. Check some of the posts here about barrel cleaning. You will find many different ways to clean a rifle barrel and some fantastic discussion go along with them. Many people claim to have the cleaning procedure that works best. Actually, it is the procedure that works best for them. When a baby needs changed and cleaned, you don't like it but it has to be done. Some of the rifles pictured in this forum are the shooter's baby and taken care of in that manner. In the day of the trapper, your rifle kept you alive. Thus, they were treated extremely well. That is part of the charisma of black powder shooting. Now I get off the box.

There are NO non corrosive black powder substitutes. PERIOD. This includes Blackhorn 209.

What they said. Blackhorn 209 is probably the closest you will get but I have never used it and it is expensive. Still needs to be cleaned though. You could dryball them and then use a CO2 to shoot them out but they won't be very accurate.

HandyAndy said:

What are people's opinions about non corrosive BP substitutes?

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There is no such thing.

Blackhorn 209 is corrosive and likely will NOT be ignited by #10/11 caps, probably not ignited by musket caps, and worthless in a flintlock. There is a reason why 209 is in the name.

T7 is less likely to rapidly corrode a bore but it is still corrosive.

Muzzleloading ain't fer everyone. If yah ain't willin to klean then maybe it ain't fer you.

Your a victim of advertising. If you carefully research, a lot of the Subs say "does not corrode like black powder". They are correct. It corrodes a completely different way (different chemical process), but the results are still rusted barrels.

I’ll join in the chorus about there being no non corrosive substitutes. Use regular black powder if you can get it or one of the subs mentioned including Pyrodex. Also if the nipples on your guns aren’t damaged or mushroomed from dry firing they will most likely work fine. A simple way to check is to put a cap on without loading the rifle and see if it pops. If your muzzleloaders were purchased used be sure to check that they weren’t left loaded before popping a cap.

This was my experience.i only use real black powder.got back to the house after shooting, to be met with a very annoyed wife- forgot we had a prior commitment! Just swabbed 3 patches of ballistol down the bore, swiped around the lock area.rifle was left for 2 days like that. Ran a patch down the bore expecting the worst- no rust, just black carbon. Did properly clean it . Once again, I only use REAL black powder. Pyrodex has ruined a LOT of rifle bores without proper cleaning.

Do not buy into the "season your bore" BS that a lot of people will tell you. It was a thing long ago, but we shoot rifles with modern steel now (for the most part anyway). Like posted above, there are no non corrosive powders used in BPML rifles. I have noticed 777 does produce much less fouling than Goex but it can be finickey to ignite in my guns.

Soon after you get back from shooting, flush the barrel out well, not forgetting the breech plug and nipple area and dry it well with patches and Q-Tip. I drop the nipple in a jar of Windex to clean the primer residue.

Once you are done cleaning and drying, use a muzzleloader grease or a good gun oil to thoroughly coat the bore and breech area. Wipe down ALL exterior metal surfaces well too. I much prefer a gun oil to a grease like crisco or one made with beeswax

When you go out to shoot, before you load, wipe out the bore with a dry patch or two. I like to then swab the bore a couple of strokes with a patch damp with isopropyl alcohol I carry in my bag in a small leak proof bottle. This loading prep only takes a minute or two and removes any possibility of oil fouling.

Load, shoot, clean, repeat.

I don't know if seasoning the bore actually works the way they say or not but if you use BB when you shoot it does help delay the corrosion that takes place. I often any more use BB for the last few shots just in case I am delayed in cleaning my gun. I still get to it same day though but usually right away.

I drop my nipples into a small container with MAP.
The peroxide in the mix will bubble and boil all the carbon and other manure right out.
A quick brush and rinse and the nipple is good to go again.
A little MAP down the bore into a Patent Breech will also boil it perfectly clean and free of sludge. It also erases any powder ring you may have acquired.
M - Murphy's Oil Soap
A - Alcohol - 91 proof
P - Peroxide (Like you get a Wally World)
Equal parts of each.

Ah yes, the old three in one cleaning solution. Followed by three in one oil! For over forty years I used the old G.I. gun oil that came back from Nam. Then a friend who was in special forces steered me to three in one oil.

Muzzleloader’s need to be cleaned after shooting as soon as possible my friend. Doesn’t matter what powder or powder substitute’s you’re using?

Gotta factor your cleaning time in after your shooting time as a part of your experience after pulling that trigger. Not a lazy mans sport.

Cleaning is part of the shooting experience when it comes to muzzleloader’s my friend.

Cleaning methods, lubricants, and storage is something I’m not going to get into. As long as you do it soon afterwards.

Respectfully, Cowboy

When you eat a meal you wash the plate, but the plate won't rust if you forget. So when you fire a muzzleloader you "must" clean it because it WILL rust. And this "seasoning" thing is mostly myth and doesn't exist today and probably never did. Even if it did "season" a bore , who in their right mind would want a bore that looked like a well used cast iron skillet?

"Seasoning" is really a mix of fouling and carbonized oil or grease. It will fill the grooves and accuracy will be lost. Most of us want to remove the fouling and the burnt grease.