Uberti 1860 Army Question

nightwolf1974 · Aug 19, 2020

Uberti offers the 1860 Army with a steel backstrap and another with a brass backstrap. Which is closer to the original Colt 1860?

sourdough · Aug 19, 2020

The original Colt 1860 Army .44 backstrap was always blued steel. When Colt was experimenting with the design for the 1860 Army .44 he trialed lightened 3rd Model Dragoons and 1851 Navies when designing a detachable shoulder stock. He had four prototype stocks in mind and eventually settled upon the Type 3, which is what we see today in reproduction stocks for the 4-screw frame Armies, Navies, and Dragoons. He found that the brass backstap of the 1851 Navy was too soft to withstand the use of a shoulder stock. That is also why the 1861 Navy .36 4-screw had a steel backstrap.

Stay away from the brass backstrap: it is neither historically correct nor will it stand up to use with a shoulder stock.

I know I have posted this photo before (probably ad nauseum to some folks here) but it is just to illustrate this subject.

My ASM 1860 Army Full-fluted Cylinder with steel backstrap.

Regards,

Jim

Jaegermeister · Aug 19, 2020

Nice revolver. Full fluted Armies are the most beautiful in my opinion. Love my Uberti.

nightwolf1974 · Aug 19, 2020

sourdough said:
The original Colt 1860 Army .44 backstrap was always blued steel. When Colt was experimenting with the design for the 1860 Army .44 he trialed lightened 3rd Model Dragoons and 1851 Navies when designing a detachable shoulder stock. He had four prototype stocks in mind and eventually settled upon the Type 3, which is what we see today in reproduction stocks for the 4-screw frame Armies, Navies, and Dragoons. He found that the brass backstap of the 1851 Navy was too soft to withstand the use of a shoulder stock. That is also why the 1861 Navy .36 4-screw had a steel backstrap.

Stay away from the brass backstrap: it is neither historically correct nor will it stand up to use with a shoulder stock.

I know I have posted this photo before (probably ad nauseum to some folks here) but it is just to illustrate this subject.

My ASM 1860 Army Full-fluted Cylinder with steel backstrap.

Regards,

Jim

Thanks!

nightwolf1974 · Aug 30, 2020

What about the fluted cylinder 1860s? Was that a real thing?

Smokey Plainsman · Aug 30, 2020

nightwolf1974 said:
What about the fluted cylinder 1860s? Was that a real thing?

Absolutely.

They were made early on but discontinued by Colt after a while. It is widespread disinformation that the fluted models were prone to blowing up. In truth, the culprit was the early straight chamber design. The reason Colt discontinued them is most likely they took longer to machine than the common round cylinders and that slowed down production time. Once the Army started making large orders this was important.

Now Pietta offers a model with half flutes like you’d see on a modern revolver. That is NOT correct and purely fantasy.

Zonie · Aug 31, 2020

In "Flayderman's Guide to Antique American Firearms" under the Colt Model 1860 Army Revolver it says,

"Fluted Cylinder Army: Cylinders had full flutes, and thus lacked roll engraved scenes... Appear in the serial range 3 to about 8000; the total production estimated at 4000."

They are considered rare because there were about 200,500 1860 Army Models made.

Jaegermeister · Aug 31, 2020

I think they’re the most beautiful cap and ball revolvers. Of course I’m very biased.

FishDFly · Aug 31, 2020

I have to agree, that is on my wish list. I really want the Navy though as I prefer .36.

kje54 · Aug 31, 2020

Smokey Plainsman said:
Absolutely.

They were made early on but discontinued by Colt after a while. It is widespread disinformation that the fluted models were prone to blowing up. In truth, the culprit was the early straight chamber design. The reason Colt discontinued them is most likely they took longer to machine than the common round cylinders and that slowed down production time. Once the Army started making large orders this was important.

Now Pietta offers a model with half flutes like you’d see on a modern revolver. That is NOT correct and purely fantasy.

Yup, I own a Pietta fluted cylinder model .44. They had it on sale a few years ago, think it was around $100 off the normal asking price.

Smokey Plainsman · Aug 31, 2020

Jaegermeister said:
I think they’re the most beautiful cap and ball revolvers. Of course I’m very biased.

It’s just about got it all, beautiful looks, lovely curves, amazing balance in the hand, light enough for belt carry, and .44 stopping power.

The fluted 1860s are incredible!

Jaegermeister · Aug 31, 2020

Oh hell, I just gotta post a pic or two while we’re on the subject. I use my Civil War naval frog for it’s holster because I’ve always been fascinated with the crew of Mississippi River Squadron City Class gunboats.
I’m too chicken to attempt refinishing the wood grips. I hate the Uberti finish.

B P Arn · Aug 31, 2020

^^^ That high gloss "dude" finish can easily be corrected.

Soak the grip in lacquer thinner for about an hour, then scrub with a nylon cleaning brush. After the grip has thoroughly dried, you can polish the wood and remove any remaining traces if finish with steel or bronze wool. NO SANDPAPER!!! EVER!!!

You do not need to stain them, but you can if you want, and a dark walnut stain will make the wood look more like American Black Walnut, of which the originals were made.

After the stain has dried, apply no more than 2 or 3 coats of Tung oil. You are done.

A common mistake for amatures to make is to ladle on many coats of varnish. That was not how the originals were made.

Jaegermeister · Aug 31, 2020

Thank you. I may try that soon. Anything will be a big improvement.

Smokey Plainsman · Aug 31, 2020

B P Arn said:
^^^ That high gloss "dude" finish can easily be corrected.

Soak the grip in lacquer thinner for about an hour, then scrub with a nylon cleaning brush. After the grip has thoroughly dried, you can polish the wood and remove any remaining traces if finish with steel or bronze wool. NO SANDPAPER!!! EVER!!!

You do not need to stain them, but you can if you want, and a dark walnut stain will make the wood look more like American Black Walnut, of which the originals were made.

After the stain has dried, apply no more than 2 or 3 coats of Tung oil. You are done.

A common mistake for amatures to make is to ladle on many coats of varnish. That was not how the originals were made.

Colt originally offered a varnished finish as well as a “normal” type basic oiled finish on the 1860s. Many of the civilian cases set guns had varnished grips. Granted the varnish wasn’t caked on plastic stuff like Uberti loves to use, but still. There was a hold up on some initial army orders as they didn’t want the varnished grips that Colt already had made up.

sourdough · Aug 31, 2020

Jaegermeister said:
Oh hell, I just gotta post a pic or two while we’re on the subject. I use my Civil War naval frog for it’s holster because I’ve always been fascinated with the crew of Mississippi River Squadron City Class gunboats.
I’m too chicken to attempt refinishing the wood grips. I hate the Uberti finish.
View attachment 41518

Uberti likes red. There are many Pietta European hardwood grips that are reddish, but not to the extent of the Ubertis.

I have an Uberti Whitneyville Hartford Dragoon replica (2019) that is somewhat red, but not bad.

The funny part of this is what Uberti has on their website. They do not make a WH Dragoon like this these days. The original one they produced was accurate: no protruding screw ends on the right side of the frame. Can't be had these days.

And look at the wood! No such thing anymore.

Regards,

Jim

Smokey Plainsman · Aug 31, 2020

My recent Pietta has about the right color compared to the museum grade cased sets I’ve seen:

I agree the Ubertis are too red.

I’ve found the Citristrip product works well to get off the Uberti stuff. I redid the grips on this Uberti Remington (along with antiquing it) and I like the results:

Jaegermeister · Aug 31, 2020

I definitely want an oil finished look and a dark walnut color. However I’m very good at effen up a fairly simple project when it come to finishing wood.

B P Arn · Aug 31, 2020

The main thing is to stay away from the edges, which are easily rounded over, and are a sure sign of a poorly done re-finish. "Elbow grease" is your worst enemy here.

Lippy984 · Aug 31, 2020

B P Arn said:
^^^ That high gloss "dude" finish can easily be corrected.

Soak the grip in lacquer thinner for about an hour, then scrub with a nylon cleaning brush. After the grip has thoroughly dried, you can polish the wood and remove any remaining traces if finish with steel or bronze wool. NO SANDPAPER!!! EVER!!!

You do not need to stain them, but you can if you want, and a dark walnut stain will make the wood look more like American Black Walnut, of which the originals were made.

After the stain has dried, apply no more than 2 or 3 coats of Tung oil. You are done.

A common mistake for amatures to make is to ladle on many coats of varnish. That was not how the originals were made.

Good info, thank you

Uberti 1860 Army Question

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