Shooting patches

I recently acquired a 45 cal. CVA Kentucky pistol. The little bit of paper work that came with the pistol suggests using a .05 thick patch. I was able to get .10 thick patches but that's it.
I can't think of any material to use that's thin enough just in case the 10's are too thick. Any suggestions?

Depends on what size ball you use. Dont rely too much on what they suggest except for max powder load. you can use .440, .441.443, or what ever. Its no different than your rifles.

.010 should work fine may even need a little thicker.

Been a while since I shot my CVA Kentucky pistol but I got good results using .440 balls and a .015 lubed patch. It was tight but did well in my copy.

Jeff

Remember, patch material compresses when it's sandwiched between the ball and the bore, so a .440 ball and .015 patch would probably be ideal.

I have used flannel material before. It's not the best material but works in a pinch. easy to load & compresses allot. It works with light loads and beings you are shooting a pistol, my guess is it will be light loads.

0.005" thick patches are really too thin unless this is the maximum compressed thickness. Since patch material is not sold by compressed thickness, but by the uncompressed thickness. I'm in the camp of those suggesting purchasing 0.015" thick cotton patching material. This 0.015" thick patches will compress to 0.005" thick between the ball and the lands with enough thickness to fill the grooves.

I think the only reason for suggesting .05 patches is to make loading easier since it's a handgun. with a tiny wooden ramrod.
I use .440 balls and .10 -.15 patches and a good ball starter. You may also want to get a brass loading rod with a hand ball on it.
Back in the day when I shot it a lot, I used a thin bed sheet material for easy loading. I wasn't competition shooting, just plinking in the neighbors junk ditch.

If I remember correct, the older CVA pistols had pretty shallow rifling. Could be why they recommended thin patch.

Grenadier1758 said:

0.005" thick patches are really too thin unless this is the maximum compressed thickness. Since patch material is not sold by compressed thickness, but by the uncompressed thickness. I'm in the camp of those suggesting purchasing 0.015" thick cotton patching material. This 0.015" thick patches will compress to 0.005" thick between the ball and the lands with enough thickness to fill the grooves.

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It was a convenient coincidence I stumbled on your post! I was measuring various fabrics with my micrometer this evening and I was wondering how to actually measure it, by the compressed or uncompressed thickness. So thanks much.

I’ve got to work out which thickness will contribute to best accuracy and ease of loading a .445 round ball in a bore with shallow rifling.

You're welcome. I hope my suggestions are of help.

To work out which patch thickness, ball diameter and patch lubricant require that one starts out with details of the shooting environment.
1. What is the land to land bore measurement?
2 . What is the bottom of the groove to groove measurement?
3. What is the diameter of the ball? Ultimately you should sort by weight, but that is an additional piece of equipment.
4. What is the patch thickness? I recommend unlubricated patches. Even at my most abusive of patch material compression I can't reach the level of compression that you can achieve with the short starter and mallet.
5. What is the patch material? I prefer tightly woven cotton. I also prefer to cut the patch at the muzzle, but a round or square patch of a little over 1" will do.
6. How smooth is the crown? A properly radiused crown is necessary for ease of loading.
7. How tight a loading are you willing to accept? The considerations for making the preliminary decisions are dependent on how tight the loading can be. For best accuracy at the range, a short starter and mallet may be required. For ease of hunting, you want a fairly loose loading with the thumb only.

To start, you have a ball of 0.445" in diameter. Verify the measurement with your caliper. Since you have shallow rifling, I am going to make the assumption that you have a bore diameter of 0.450" and a depth of groove of 0.006". The difference of 0.005" between the ball and the lands means that the patch will be compressed to 0.0025". In the case of a soft lead ball, which you should be using, the patch and the lands will swedge the ball a bit. You have the 0.0025 and the 0.006" depth of groove, so the patch needs to compress to 0.0085" to fully fill the grooves and with a bit of lubrication prevent a lot of gas cutting and blow by. A pillow ticking patch of tightly woven cotton of 0.015" or cotton drill of 0.017" will be a tight load as the fabric is compressed and the ball is swedged in the barrel.

Since you are talking of best accuracy, lubrication becomes important. I use a relatively thin lubricant of 1 part of water soluble oil and 7 parts of water. I use that mix to dampen the patch as I load. The dampness aids in compressing the patch and also wiping fouling from the bore.

I do know of shooters who have near bore sized balls that rely on a very heavily radiused crown to compress and engrave a bore sized ball or even greater than bore sized ball. I don't think this is the time for that sort of thought process.

Consider my musings a starting point. You may need to try several powder charges. Start at 50 grains volume of your powder and increase 5 grains. Evaluate after shooting 5 shots for group. Only change one component at a time and keep records.

Thank you for your generous advice. I’m pretty satisfied with my current patching of 100% cotton. It’s .015 and squeezes down to .008. Recovered patches shows no burnt holes or excessive fraying, just a brown scorch ring around the ball.

My real dilemma is finding a solvent that I can use to clean the fouling between shots and maybe act as a patch lubricant. It’s been recommended to me by some club members to make up a solution of ballistol and water and squirt a little dishwashing detergent in it.

I’d like to try the Murphy Oil Soap mixtures but in Australia it is as rare as rocking-horse poop. What the hell would “oil soap” be anyway? Some kind of edible oil and detergent?

For the purpose of a patch lubricant, a mixture of one part water soluble oil, used in machine shops for a cutting oil, or Ballistol and 5 to 7 parts of water makes a very good patch lubricant. A squirt of dish washing soap can add to the slickness of the lubricant. You can substitute 2 or three parts of rubbing alcohol for equal amounts of water if you are using an oil such as mink oil for the patches. If you have a chambered breech, I would consider using the water soluble oil and water patch lubricant only on the patched ball and forego wiping between shots. In a chambered breech rifle, tight fitting wiping patches will push fouling into the chamber, but a damp patch for target shooting will clean the fouling as the ball is loaded. @Widows Son, I wouldn't worry about finding Murphy's Oil Soap.

Grenadier1758 said:

For the purpose of a patch lubricant, a mixture of one part water soluble oil, used in machine shops for a cutting oil, or Ballistol and 5 to 7 parts of water makes a very good patch lubricant. A squirt of dish washing soap can add to the slickness of the lubricant. You can substitute 2 or three parts of rubbing alcohol for equal amounts of water if you are using an oil such as mink oil for the patches. If you have a chambered breech, I would consider using the water soluble oil and water patch lubricant only on the patched ball and forego wiping between shots. In a chambered breech rifle, tight fitting wiping patches will push fouling into the chamber, but a damp patch for target shooting will clean the fouling as the ball is loaded. @Widows Son, I wouldn't worry about finding Murphy's Oil Soap.

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Great advice.
I just got a dovetail cut for a new rear sight and I’m off to the range this weekend to sight in. I will experiment with the ballistol-water-soap as a patch lubricant. If that stuff actually cleans the bore at the same time as loading, without wiping between shots, it would be a holy grail.