Black Powder Price/Quality/Value

A recent look at Graf's black powder listings has their powder pricings per pound as:

Graf's House Brand: $16.59

Schuetzen $19.99

GOEX $19.99

Old Eynsford $22.99

Swiss: $27.99

At over $10 a pound more than Graf's label powder, and $8 more than GOEX and Schuetzen, is Swiss worth that 40 - 60% premium?

What would one consider to be the best value out of those listed?

Also there seems to be some agreement hat Swiss is the highest quality and Old Eynsford is a cut above the rest, but of the other three, Graf's, Schuetzen and GOEX, is there any substantial difference?

Curious as to what the consensus is on this out there.

I find Swiss substantially hotter than Goex and use it exclusively in my small bores. Goex is a great powder if you don’t need that extra pop and OE somewhere in between. I find Schuetzen dirty but fine, especially their larger granulations. Haven’t used Graf’s. I use Schuetzen fg in my 12 bore for shot. I’d say if you don’t use Swiss or OE, then Goex is where I’d go for most loads.

I just ordered some of Graf's powder (Goex now), but haven't tried it yet as I need to finish up a can of Goex first. However, I have tried Wano/Schuetzen (Graf's) and Diamondback and was pleased with all of them. As I sometimes damp swab between shots or more typically, use an almost dripping patch for my RB loads, I don't see much bore fouling.

In my .50 cal, I find Swiss a bit dirtier than GOEX, so I tend to shoot GOEX exclusively.

I have shot them all except Scheutzen and with proper load developement they all do fine. Goex and Grafs are a little dirtier than Olde E and Swiss but the fouling on Swiss is a little harder however cleaning was no problem using my normal process. I decided earlier this year to make a bulk purchase and shot all of my rifles with each powder. When all was said and done I purchased a case of Olde E. I will keep a few pounds of standard Goex and Swiss on hand because you never know when a particular gun may group better with a particular powder. The Olde E cost me $400.00 for a full case while standard Goex was $375.00 Swiss was $575.00 which is high but if I was a serious competitive shooter I would be willing to pay. I bought my powder from Deer Creek Products and they were awesome folks. I did not contact Grafs for a price on a case of their brand because I prefer to pick powder up in person to save Hazmat and shipping. If you can afford to test all of them I would suggest that and save money by buying or splitting a case with other shooters.

I shoot Swiss fffg in my small bores and Goex fg,ffg,fffg, and ffffg in the pan on all my other guns.

I've switched from standard GOEX to Old E (3f), mostly because I also shoot BPCR and found Old E to work a little better. I'm just gonna be using it in all my BP guns for the sake of keeping things simple and not having to keep multiple brands/granulations on hand.

The extra cost of of some of these powders isn't worth any difference in performance to me. OE might be a better choice (as would Swiss) in c&b revolvers but I don't have a c&b. I find Goex, Jack's Battle Powder and other lower cost options do everything I ever want to do with my muzzleloaders.

TNGhost said:

..., is Swiss worth that 40 - 60% premium?
..., but of the other three, Graf's, Schuetzen and GOEX, is there any substantial difference?

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It depends on what you're trying to do. If you're trying to hit the vitals of a deer out to 75 yards, I have found no advantage in performance between Graf and GOEX. AND absolutely no advantage to paying the additional money for Swiss for doing that task.

On the other hand IF there is ever a problem with importation of black powder, GOEX products will be superior to all, as they will be the only ones available. Which is why I always buy a few pounds of GOEX each year in addition to Graf's as I want GOEX to stay in business.

LD

Just so you know, Graf's branded powder is now made by Goex. (Prior to that the green labeled bottles "Graf's" and Graf's "Schuetzen" were made by Wano).

Shoot mostly .40 cal. , .50 , .54 , .62 cal. , Old Graf's and Goex. All render 2" to 3" and sometimes smaller groups @ 50 yds. No complaints here.....oldwood

Goex is what most people use in my neck of the woods. Not saying the others aren’t good powders also. We use to burn lots of Elephant also.

Goex here for every thing.

TNGhost said:

A recent look at Graf's black powder listings has their powder pricings per pound as:

Graf's House Brand: $16.59

Schuetzen $19.99

GOEX $19.99

Old Eynsford $22.99

Swiss: $27.99

At over $10 a pound more than Graf's label powder, and $8 more than GOEX and Schuetzen, is Swiss worth that 40 - 60% premium?

What would one consider to be the best value out of those listed?

Also there seems to be some agreement hat Swiss is the highest quality and Old Eynsford is a cut above the rest, but of the other three, Graf's, Schuetzen and GOEX, is there any substantial difference?

Curious as to what the consensus is on this out there.

Click to expand...

Depends on your intended purpose. If you just want basic plinking and maybe hunting, then standard Red Can Goex is fine as it Schutzen.

IF you are into competition, then the premium paid for powder like Old E and Swiss is not an issue. Part of that is the better consistency but they are also measurably more "energetic" than the cheap stuff so you use less powder for the same, more consistent velocity. So in the end, that price difference isn't as much. In my 1862 Colt, my basic load with Red Can is 46g 3f. Using Old E, it's 42g. With Swiss, it's 40g. Furthermore, cheap stuff has more fouling to deal with.

Being a competitor, it's Old E and Swiss without question and it depends on the gun as to which I'm using.

Kansas Kid said:

Goex is what most people use in my neck of the woods. Not saying the others aren’t good powders also. We use to burn lots of Elephant also.View attachment 39890View attachment 39890

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Kansas Kid Where did you get that Goex ball cap?

I only ever used Goex powder in my rifles. Recently I acquired a few pistols and thought to try some different powders. I bought some Swiss and Old Ensyford 3f.
I find that the Swiss seems to be a finer granulation than the OE. I don't think one is necessarily better than the other but the Swiss does seem to be a bit clearer burning. To me, the Old Ensyford and Goex are about the same.

Because Goex is really the only thing that local vendors ever have, it's really all I've ever used (ordered some Graf's a number of years ago before Goex was making it and it was fine/similar). Given that I only use a pound or two of powder annually, the few bucks extra for OE isn't an issue for me and if it shoots even marginally cleaner, hotter or more accurately, it's worth a few bucks and I'll likely order some now (retired now and have more time for such things).

deermanct said:

Swiss seems to be a finer granulation than the OE. I don't think one is necessarily better than the other but the Swiss does seem to be a bit clearer burning. To me, the Old Ensyford and Goex are about the same.

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This could very well be the reason for Swiss "being more energetic".....

And cleaner burning.

smo said:

This could very well be the reason for Swiss "being more energetic".....

And cleaner burning.

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I definitely think that production plays a large part along with a higher grade of charcoal. Looking at the two powders side by side the Goex is duller, rougher, and marginally larger that the smooth, shiney Swiss. Swiss appears to me to be something like 1/4f smaller. Definitely some of the reason for the higher FPS per grain.

GANGGREEN said:

Because Goex is really the only thing that local vendors ever have, it's really all I've ever used (ordered some Graf's a number of years ago before Goex was making it and it was fine/similar). Given that I only use a pound or two of powder annually, the few bucks extra for OE isn't an issue for me and if it shoots even marginally cleaner, hotter or more accurately, it's worth a few bucks and I'll likely order some now (retired now and have more time for such things).

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Congrats on your Retirement! ...... Good Luck on the more time thing...

I really don't know how I ever had time too work...