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Slings?

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it is drilled through the wood but I think there is more to it than that. I know my jaeger has a tenon on the barrel the pin goes though for support, it doesn't just depend on the wood for support. if it did it would wallow the wood out. the best thing to do is ask about it in the gun builder section. "Dave person" can answer it correctly for you,,,,,,,,,,,,
 
Gavin T Lane said:
Olskool is that front swivel just drilled through the wood? I’d like to put one on my trade musket. Is it reenforced in any way? Thanks!
Click to expand...
I'm not @olskool, but I have two muskets with slings. The sling swivel is pinned through the wood and through a tenon on the barrel. The tenon is located so the swivel rests on the ram rod thimble just behind it. A sling swivel would put too much stress on the wood if there were no tenon on the barrel to strengthen the attachment. There were some reproduction muskets with the swivel attached only to the wood that soon wore the wood away. There were also some swivels attached with the swivel resting on the wood and ramrod that wore wood away.
 
Grenadier1758 said:
I'm not @olskool, but I have two muskets with slings. The sling swivel is pinned through the wood and through a tenon on the barrel. The tenon is located so the swivel rests on the ram rod thimble just behind it. A sling swivel would put too much stress on the wood if there were no tenon on the barrel to strengthen the attachment. There were some reproduction muskets with the swivel attached only to the wood that soon wore the wood away. There were also some swivels attached with the swivel resting on the wood and ramrod that wore wood away.
Click to expand...
Ok thanks for the info. I got a new Pedersoli Trade rifle yesterday for hunting. I was debating on a sing. I’ll take it apart to see what the underside of the barrel looks like for a tenon install.
 
olskool said:
it is drilled through the wood but I think there is more to it than that. I know my jaeger has a tenon on the barrel the pin goes though for support, it doesn't just depend on the wood for support. if it did it would wallow the wood out. the best thing to do is ask about it in the gun builder section. "Dave person" can answer it correctly for you,,,,,,,,,,,,
Click to expand...
Here's what I did on my jaeger I built. I put a tennon under the barrel so the sling would rest on the middle ramrod thimble. I had to make the sling. I made 2 small leather washers that go between the sling and the stock to stop the sling from damaging the wood when caring the gun. I used a little neetsfoot oil to lube the leather washers. Hope this helps.
 
I like this application of a sling very much, is it something you added to your rifle ? How exactly did you attach to the stock ?

Belleville said:
Most German rifles and fowlers and some French fusils (a French rifle is rare) had slings. The French Trade guns and fusils (non-military) supplied to New France generally did not have slings. I am told that the surfaces of the Alps are more vertical than the Rockys, so a sling would be useful. Few American fowlers seemed to have had slings. See Grinslade's book. Then it is can be difficult to tell on guns that show evidence of slings, when was the sling added. Also can be difficult to see in a pic if a fowler/fusil had a sling, if the sling attachments have been removed. Att. are a couple pics of French fusils with slings.
Click to expand...
 
Experiential archeology , I like that term. Anyone who has ever hunted much knows that a sling just makes life much easier. I don't think it is beyond the realm of possibility that our ancestors would have figured that out too, probably just a piece of rope or leather carried in a hunting bag and tied on when needed. That's what I do.
Something I have always wondered about, in Lewis's writings his constant companion was his spontoon, It saved his life once. Seems to me, he would have had to have a slinged rifle to be able to carry a 6 foot spontoon everywhere he went.
 
Smokey Plainsman said:
Very cool. I like his hat.

I think slings mayn’t have been so popular as now because it may’ve been enthoughten that the rifle is best in the hands at all times, so it may be ready to shoulder in case a wild bear or native be encountered, or of course, game. And, then much like today, most huntists wouldn’t be walking too terribly far unlike a soldier on the march. I have also personally found a very long barreled gun quite a hindrance to carry in the brush by way of shoulder sling. In the hands, it’s is much easier to maneuver through thickets and things as one can see the barrel and guide it around bushs and other obstacles. Slung, it quickly catches on limbs and vines, this would be especially true for a longrifle or fowling piece of common length.

This is only conjecture, though.
Click to expand...
Your point made me think.
European Jagars often had slings but little seen in America.
For sure you wanted a gun in your hand should the threat of danger be near.
But the frontier in 177~ wasn’t Vietnam in ‘68. Men had to clear land, plant crops, politic and visit, and see to the needs of the community. And you couldn’t be ready to fight at any time.
We see in some western paintings guns sling or in hangers of some sort.
So, why no slings?
A short European rifle could fit well on a back of over a shoulder. While the longer American rifle was not as comfortable??????
I wonder.
 
I've read perhaps 15 books , mostly the kind dictated to an author by some relative of ,or second generation person who had actual knowledge of life and times from 1750 to 1820 living in Appalachia . The folks providing the original information seem to seldom mention construction details of individual guns. Generally , slings are one item almost never mentioned. There being almost no way to know what is historically correct , we can only apply modern common sense to use of slings on rifles. My guess is most day to day information is taken for granted and valuable print isn't to be wasted on what was commonly known details, back in the day.
The information says, horses were heavily used on the frontier back in the day. I cant imagine a person riding through a woods on a horse w/o the barrel catching on some brush or limb and pulling the rider off onto the ground. There is no mention of scabbards in use either. A rifle slung over the shoulder frees up the hands as well.
Examining old rifles in collections , occasionally , diagonal holes in forearms are evidence an upper sling swivel once was applied. Lower swivel fixtures were part of the trigger guard , or a metal sling button screwed into the lower butt stock european style. Lehigh Valley , Pa. rifles have a boss on the front of the trigger guard for the lower sling swivel. The boss is a dead giveaway in identification of where such rifles were made. Military muskets universally employed a sling so why wouldn't some of the custom made rifles used here for war have had slings. There's just little information on slings in early use.
Most folks ordering a deer hunting rifle these days want a leather or cloth sling . As a gunstocker , all I can go with , are the little bits of actual "eyes on" evidence of how slings were applied , that being , if muzzle up , the muzzle not protruding much above the top of the head , rifle slung on the shoulder, butt down. If the lock's hammer is caught on something to pull the hammer out of the safe notch and the rifle errantly fires , the charge goes safely upward. In 50 yrs. m/l hunting , as yet , I've never seen this happen.
If anyone has anything to add to this , please inform us.....oldwood
 
This to me settles the question. As oldwood points out slings were in use as far back as there were formed armies w/ muskets. They were used for the same reasons as settlers, pioneers or anyone else would’ve used them. I’m not surprised little documented sling evidence exists. If you needed a sling you made one, simple as that.
oldwood said:
Military muskets universally employed a sling so why wouldn't some of the custom made rifles used here for war have had slings.
Click to expand...
 
jonathan butcher said:
I like this application of a sling very much, is it something you added to your rifle ? How exactly did you attach to the stock ?
Click to expand...

Jonathan

I have put slings on a couple of guns. I add an under lug to the barrel or use the middle pin lug and add a front swivel by drilling thru the stock and under lug, securing it with a machine screw. At the rear I add a sling swivel with wood screw threads on the attachment, behind the trigger guard, or a button type lug (the button lug attachment was mostly common on Jaegers). All these parts are commercially available or can be made.

'Doc'
 
tenngun said:
Your point made me think.
European Jagars often had slings but little seen in America.
For sure you wanted a gun in your hand should the threat of danger be near.
But the frontier in 177~ wasn’t Vietnam in ‘68. Men had to clear land, plant crops, politic and visit, and see to the needs of the community. And you couldn’t be ready to fight at any time.
We see in some western paintings guns sling or in hangers of some sort.
So, why no slings?
A short European rifle could fit well on a back of over a shoulder. While the longer American rifle was not as comfortable??????
I wonder.
Click to expand...

I agree the profile of the American longrifle combined with the woods of the early American frontier, was not conducive to a sling being favorable. That the muskets of the militaries had slings makes perfect sense in that they promoted uniformity, and gave a way for the soldier to keep his arm handy while doing other chores, sort of like a policeman's holster. The armies also maneuvered out in the open and marched in formation. Normally they did not slip singly through the woods in a mandated state of almost constant readiness..

All that said I own several rifles, some with slings, some without. All of the military types I own have slings, muzzleloaders or otherwise, nearly all of the sporting types do not, with the major exception being bolt action hunting rifles. (I almost think that the fact most bolt actions being set up for slings goes back to their military ancestry)

When was the last time you saw a sling on a modern shotgun? Not a prevalent modern practice at all and only a small minority sport slings, and what is a shotgun but a modern variation of the traditional smoothbore musket?
 
oldwood said:
I've read perhaps 15 books , mostly the kind dictated to an author by some relative of ,or second generation person who had actual knowledge of life and times from 1750 to 1820 living in Appalachia . The folks providing the original information seem to seldom mention construction details of individual guns. Generally , slings are one item almost never mentioned. There being almost no way to know what is historically correct , we can only apply modern common sense to use of slings on rifles. My guess is most day to day information is taken for granted and valuable print isn't to be wasted on what was commonly known details, back in the day.
The information says, horses were heavily used on the frontier back in the day. I cant imagine a person riding through a woods on a horse w/o the barrel catching on some brush or limb and pulling the rider off onto the ground. There is no mention of scabbards in use either. A rifle slung over the shoulder frees up the hands as well.
Examining old rifles in collections , occasionally , diagonal holes in forearms are evidence an upper sling swivel once was applied. Lower swivel fixtures were part of the trigger guard , or a metal sling button screwed into the lower butt stock european style. Lehigh Valley , Pa. rifles have a boss on the front of the trigger guard for the lower sling swivel. The boss is a dead giveaway in identification of where such rifles were made. Military muskets universally employed a sling so why wouldn't some of the custom made rifles used here for war have had slings. There's just little information on slings in early use.
Most folks ordering a deer hunting rifle these days want a leather or cloth sling . As a gunstocker , all I can go with , are the little bits of actual "eyes on" evidence of how slings were applied , that being , if muzzle up , the muzzle not protruding much above the top of the head , rifle slung on the shoulder, butt down. If the lock's hammer is caught on something to pull the hammer out of the safe notch and the rifle errantly fires , the charge goes safely upward. In 50 yrs. m/l hunting , as yet , I've never seen this happen.
If anyone has anything to add to this , please inform us.....oldwood
Click to expand...
That’s a good point. We see some real fine rifles coming out of that time. Even ‘plain’ guns were better then anything I’ve ever built. However they were tools.
It seems that guns get as little reference in old literature on the frontier as any other tool. We get little discretion of carts or wagons.
Cabins went up everywhere but each individual and many abandoned or scavenged as soon as a house was built.
The Mormon cart comes to mind. I would bet there is a bit more variety then seen in the surviving ones.
I often wonder how much of things never done was in fact done fairly often.
 
As someone who only still hunts. I won't use a sling. It's just something else moving for the game to spot.
 

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