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Hatfield rifle architecture.....

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GANGGREEN

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So, there's a stock carver who offers a "hatfield rifle" profile. I'd presume that this is the same profile as the Cabela's Blue Ridge/Pedersoli mountain rifle, correct? I read in a book by Toby Bridges that the original Hatfield squirrel rifle was a copy of a pre-Revolutionary Rupp rifle I think (which I'm guessing was a Reading/Berks/Lehigh type). Is this accurate? I don't necessarily want a copy of a Cabela's rifle, but if the Blue Ridge is a knock off of a Hatfield and a Hatfield is a knock-off of a Rupp, that changes things and I might consider one in a .32 or something.

Regarding the stock carver/inletter in question, I typically use Dave Keck and I'm perfectly happy with him, but I found Scott Kelley (Kelley's Stock Carving) down around my hometown area and thought I'd like to see his operation or chat with him. I've emailed and left a voice mail and haven't received a return call yet, so I'm guessing that he's mostly retired from stock carving anyway (his business is listed for sale on his website). Does anyone know Mr. Kelley or have information about the quality of work that he provides.

Not sure if Dave has a similar pattern, but he does have a bunch of them. I'll check with him the next time that I'm down that way.
 
Hi Ganggreen,
Apparently, Toby Bridges is very confused. The Hatfield was not modeled after Rupp, Berks, Lehigh, or Reading guns. Berks County, which includes Reading produced distinctive rifles very different from Lehighs and both styles are very different from Hatfields. A muzzleblasts article years ago (Muzzle Blasts Online,Vol. 3, No. 1.,;The Hatfield Kentucky Rifle) said Ted Hatfield copied a rifle his G-G- grandfather made. Herman Rupp was born in 1756. He would have ended his apprenticeship about the time the Rev War began so any pre-Rev War Rupp rifles are likely fantasies. He is first listed as a gunsmith in the tax roles of 1784. John Rupp was younger and got started at the end of the century.

dave
 
Thanks Dave, I actually read that muzzle blasts article after seeing the information from Bridges in an older book that I have lying around here. I presume that Hatfield's GGGrandfather was one of the WV/KY Hatfields, so this would be an "Appalachian mountain rifle"? Like to see that "original Hatfield rifle" if it still exists somewhere in the world.
 
Yes they are. I've had three and couldn't have been any happier with any of them. The little pup (1.5 years old) got spayed yesterday, so she's not herself today. Here's a commissioned oil painting that I had done of my two older dogs (the male has passed on).
 

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Cabela's Blue Ridge/Pedersoli mountain rifle is a very sad example of an attempted long rifle. The stock is quite bizarre. It has no comb and the butplate is tiny. It feels weird on the shoulder. The assembly techniques are poor. For instance the trigger guard is not inletted. The breech plug is about 2" long. It has a small passage down the middle. That set up make the rifle unreliable and difficult to clean. I had one and sold it cheap, no regrets.

If you want a Southern mountain rifle, get the Kibler.
 
If I were to build one in this style, I'd build it myself and could eliminate any of the weird/odd things that are wrong with the Pedersoli version like a triggerguard that's not inlet. For what it's worth, I have a Kibler, have a Joe Schell SMR and have one that I built myself as well.


Cabela's Blue Ridge/Pedersoli mountain rifle is a very sad example of an attempted long rifle. The stock is quite bizarre. It has no comb and the butplate is tiny. It feels weird on the shoulder. The assembly techniques are poor. For instance the trigger guard is not inletted. The breech plug is about 2" long. It has a small passage down the middle. That set up make the rifle unreliable and difficult to clean. I had one and sold it cheap, no regrets.

If you want a Southern mountain rifle, get the Kibler.
 
Well, Scota has a point. The triggerguard should have been inlet in the early and the later versions. The Pedersoli lock on the later ones is acceptable, but not great, but otherwise I don't think that they were ugly and I think they performed fairly well (I had a Blue Ridge rifle that I killed more deer with than any gun I've ever owned, modern or otherwise). So, if a guy was to build one in a similar style to the original Hatfields but with an inlet triggerguard, a really nice curly maple stock, maybe a few inlays or some minimal carving, etc., you might have something very nice.
 
So, if a guy was to build one in a similar style to the original Hatfields but with an inlet triggerguard, a really nice curly maple stock, maybe a few inlays or some minimal carving, etc., you might have something very nice.
...and don't forget to thin that fat fore stock.
 
My Hatfield does not have the trigger guard inletted, and it is an older one. How old I can't say, but I believe it was purchased in 1966.
Hello Grimrod. I was wondering what kind of serial number range your hatfeild has? I bought one about 6 years ago from a man that grew up in the same town it was made. I have no idea of the age, but the serial number is less than 20. Help aging it would be appreciated. Thanks, bluemule66
 
I have my Dads' Hatfield, made by Jerry Hatfield, 2 digit S/N. It is a delicate .36, very well balanced, the external triggerguard may be to reduce holes weakening the small wrist of the stock. Dads' has the Siler lock and brass nipple cup to protect the tigerstripe stock.
Deadly with .350rb and 25-30g of FFFG. Spits balls at 1500fps with about 25g of powder. Hits dead-on at 30 paces for small game. PITA to clean with hot water, no hook breech. At least the very small charges of FFFG leave little soot. 39" barrel, maybe 7/8" across the flats. Plum brown. Brass small-crescent arm-stock buttplate. I clean it with a screw-in nipple and rubber hose into a jar of water and Ammonia Windex. Then oil with CLP. Tinhorn.
 
Style is a preference thing. Some aspects of my Hatfield were really odd and shoddy,... IMHO. Some originals were pretty sad by modern standards. They were made by gunsmith who had very limited tools and little cross pollination with other gunsmiths. They did things a certain way because that is what they knew. For many back then having any working gun was appreciated. That said maybe copying a poor example from the past is not where I put my money. Emulating Haines or Armstrong might be a better goal. If a guy likes the combless droopie butstocks maybe a Bedford might be interisting?
 
I was just looking at pictures of the modern hatfield. The ramrod pipes have holes in them to allow screws to hold the barrel in place. This is CVA stuff, very mickey mouse and not at all historically accurate.
 
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