12 or 20?

charcloth said:

Hey Swampman,

You might consider a 28 ga. I use it for plinkin, fowling and deer hunting and I have nothing to want for. .530 ball 10 thousanths patch and 70 grains of FFF. Does exceptioanally well with shot and roundball!
Charcloth

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I duck, goose and swan hunt with a modern 28 gauge. I shoot over decoys and never pass shoot out to 35 yards I can kill anything a 3.5" 12 can.

Of course I am in the market for my first flinter so the 1100 will go to the safe.. :thumbsup:

Ooooh, what'd I do? :redface: Only part of my prior post went up.
The part that's missing was something like;
While both the 20 and 12 may both be able to shoot a 1 1/4 oz. load, the 12 would most likely give a larger diameter on the patern board than the 20. But, the 20 would have a longer string of shot going to the board. With larger shot, this may lead to a thinner patern of shot on a pass-thru / swing thru situation. Also, the 12 can be (shot)cupped to give the same shot density as the 20 with a significantly shorter shot string, which in essence, can give the same shot density of a 20 at greater range (the 20 just doesn't have that (range) capability. Or the 12 can be loaded to string and patern much more successfully to the 20 than vise-versa. This would (in some opinions) make the 12 more desirable for all around squerrel, rabbit, pheasant, duck, and goose (etc.) hunting.
At least this is what I've learned fron the local "Sporting Clays" and other crowds as to why they shoot the loads they do.
And it sounds probable to me but I can't say I can prove it.
PS; I do hear a lot of controvery over "if" stringing shot is an vertue or burden. I'm thinking it depends on the application. The situation of a duck jumping and going away may find a short stinged, heavier shot, long range cupped shot as a plus. While a flushing dog that jumps a quail going across your path of sight may be better suited to a longer sting of less compact shot at shorter range thereby giving more latitude with your quick "lead" estimate.
Well, that's sorta how it was explained to me. :v

After reading all of the posts about 12 vs 20 gage I'm reminded of the old argument of the 270 vs 30, 06 it's been debaited almost as long as they have been around . I've always prefered the 06 so for probably the same reasons I'll go for the 12 gage . I like the idea you can always down load 12 as you can not up load the 20 .On another note I wonder if more consideration would be better given to the guns having cylinder bore barrel or choke system vs 12 or 20 gage?

riarcher said:

the 12 would most likely give a larger diameter on the patern board than the 20.

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the 12 should pattern better than the 20 because of less shot in contact with the barrel and much less deformation due to set back, creating fliers ...... it "should" i said....


oh and if i were getting a flint smoothie with no choke, id definately go with the 10 or at least a .75. u can put 1 1/4 oz down the 20 but it kicks like a mule. i know first hand, 1 1/8oz w/ shot cup and 100 ffg in my 20 barely breaks 1100fps and without the slip on recoil pad, u wont pull the trigger twice without flinching about a foot!!! u will never get the speed that u can easily (and with little recoil) with 1 1/4oz in the .75 or 10 bore


man, i want a 10 bore double flinter!!!!!!!!

The obvious answer is that you need both a 20 ga and a 12 ga. Probably several of each, to achieve true happiness.

You know, I have or had one or more of each in 10, 12,13,14,15,16,18 and 20ga. I can't say with my abilities that I break more clay or break clay better with the big bores over the 20ga. I use 7/8oz. in the 20 and darn near 1oz. in everything else. Sure I tried more shot on the bigger bores but all I got was bruised more, not more broken clay. Doves can't tell the difference either. Now if I was shooting high flying water fowl, I am sure there would be a difference.

how about 16 ga ????

split the difference between 12 & 20, use 1 oz shot loads....

rayb

I agree with the last post . If I were you I would be considering the 10 or 12 instead of the 20 . I have the 12 and I wouldn't trade it for a 20 at all but that 10 might be interesting . when your comparing bp shot guns to smokeless gage for gage your trading down so to speak as far as power so it makes sense to go up one gage in my humble opinion

A round ball in a 12 is too large for my comfort. The shot from a 20 can be regulated for most small game, but the 12 really shines in some wing shooting in my opinion.

If limited to one, it would be the 20.

If not, I would build both.

CS

Swampman:
Another vote for the larger bore size. When it comes to shot loads, you can always load down, put you can't load up or overload I should say. As long as the weight of the gun isn't that big of an issue, go larger. I have a 10 ga SXS that I do a lot of hunting with, turkey, grouse and dove, works for them all.

When I faced this choice I went with the 20 simply because one of the main reasons I got into flintlocks was for the challenge and the 20 is more of a challenge hunting gobblers (what I built the gun for) than the 12.
I already went through the big bore thing with modern shotguns moving up to 3-1/2"mags. with max loads and wanted to go in the other direction.
The other reason I got into flintlocks was to feel a connection with the old time longgun hunters and felt like more of them would have been using a 20 than a 12......although I don't know if that is correct or not..that's what I thought anyway.
Now I want a 16.

I have a 16 and I have a lead on a .75 Getz barrel. It's gonna be a 12.

Now this whole thread is interesting to me, for I am looking at the very same two guns and am torn about the same way. I am leaning towards the 12-bore fowler. I would be using it with a round ball to hunt deer, wild hogs, and the occasional bear.

My sole concern is recoil. Sorry to say but I am rather recoil-sensitive, with my old Springfield 30-06 being the upper limit thump-wise for me. Yes, I know that every time one loads a front-stuffer you are essentially handloading, and can vary the charge for comfort and performance... but a 12-gauge ball is something like 550 grains, and that gives me pause.

What *is* the difference in recoil between the two? Is a 12-bore round ball, or even the 11-bore from a Bess any worse than torching off a modern 12-bore?

Yarrr I'm A Pirate said:

What *is* the difference in recoil between the two? Is a 12-bore round ball, or even the 11-bore from a Bess any worse than torching off a modern 12-bore?

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I personally would equate the recoil from my perdersoli mortimer 12 ga. with my modern 20 ga. I don't think that the black powder develops as much pressure as modern powder, and therefore gives less kick. At least that makes sense to me :hmm:

It depends on several factors. Stock design, amount of powder, weight of gun. But, for me anything over 3 1/4 dr. of 80gr. of powder thumps me. Even worse if it is 3F.I know I had worked up a turkey load that was something like 1 3/4 oz of shot and around 105gr. of powder and I felt real thumped.