Lewis & CLark Knife

http://www.mountaintoptradingco.com/index2.htm

Anyone familiar with this knive. I was wondering how historically accurate it is. I would love to get it.

Hey Paco:
I've never seen an original "L&C Knife," But I found it rather strange that all the knives on that page had the same handle. What really makes me doubt the authenticity of that design however, is the False edge. I seriously doubt knives of that period had such a feature.

In retail, you give names to items to differentiate them and make them appealing. I doubt that there is any historic significants to several of the names on that page.

Much like the Expidition rifles, I do not believe there was an accurate discription of the knives issued to the expidition members. I also understand that there are no surviving examples???

That makes these knives a rough guesstimation of what the expidition carried.

The manifest of trade goods lists several types of knives including foulding knives and "red handled knives", both were very cheap trade knives. (4" spearpoint blade with short pointed tang socketed into a hardwood handle that was painted red) These were standard items from the factory trade system established by the Indian department.

The knives shown on the linked site are better than the trade knives on the manifest but probably not as good as the knives on the belts of the expidition members. yes/no/maybe/who-knows

Smoke & Fire Co., J. Townsend and several other firms all sell similar blades at about the same price. All are in our links section.

The inventory of trade goods and discriptions of the equipment are available on several sites. A quick google search will link you to the origional papers.

I have several of these knifes.Most were made by Marv Palmer here in Michigan,A.K.A. "Cheap Charlie" :thumbsup:. They are sharp and good looking,and very handy. I've got a few in the kitchen for everyday use,and a few spread out amongst all my gear. Historiclly accurate? Who knows. If someone wants to spend the time to prove these knifes inappropriate for our use, shame on them and find yourself a diferent hobby, WE don't need ya! :cursing:

Pathfinder

paco97 said:

I would love to get it.

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Mr. Paco97,
If you would enjoy it, that is all the reason you need to do so. Life is short!
Best Wishes

Paco, I agree with Windwalker, if you like that style, that's all the justification you need and no one would belittle ya for carrying it. However, if you're interested in authenticity, I'll be happy to take the time and go out of my way to help ya identify a good piece.
Here's some from the Collector's Illustrated Encyclopedia of the American Revolution

The curly maple looking handles and the notched backs on those "Colonial trade knives" really detract from the PC aspect of trade knives. Though I do like the blade shapes.

Paco 97 There is a L&C knife it had a antler hande forged blade it was made by Clarks blacksmith it I think was given to a Nec Perice as a gift .I read a article about it in National Geographic It didn't have a big blade. I forget who has it now. They showed pictures of it I liked reading the article as I am related to Clark. On my dads side. Dilly

Skagun said:

Hey Paco:
I've never seen an original "L&C Knife," But I found it rather strange that all the knives on that page had the same handle. What really makes me doubt the authenticity of that design however, is the False edge. I seriously doubt knives of that period had such a feature.

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I agree. although the handles are "purty" I SERIOUSELY doubt they are PC. This handlle seems to be all the "rage" now days. :hmm:

Puffer

THanks guys for your input. I particularly don't like the handles, but I'm a L&C fan and would love to carry a knife that was based on their drawings or descriptions. Hence the phrase, "I would love to get it." If it's a loose representation, then I'm not sure that I would want it. That's why I came here. You guys are very imformative.

I know just what you mean Paco. I've wanted Dixie's "Daniel Boone" Knife for quite some time, but just don't believe the hype that they've heaped upon it.
Have you checked out Tailor made and Trail worn? it's a rather full book of the L&C expedition mixed with artists' renditions, sketches, diagrams, etc. you might find what you're looking for there.

Puffer said:

I agree. although the handles are "purty" I SERIOUSELY doubt they are PC.

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You could always take the handle off and add a PC handle to their blade...

pathfinderifh said:

Historiclly accurate? Who knows. If someone wants to spend the time to prove these knifes inappropriate for our use, shame on them and find yourself a diferent hobby, WE don't need ya! :cursing:

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Let's not get defensive. The man asked if it was PC. Now we can't even make PC comments when asked for them?

Paco, check out these two sources.Gordon Minnis,"American Primitive Knives"1770-1870 and Madison Grant,"The Knife in Homespun America" Gordon's book is the best one I know and Grant's book is OK once you get by the texts.I used to collect primitive knives and still have a few lying around plus blades with which to build knives.Like the others I don't know of any knives id'd to the L&C expedition so any good knife of the period would do.I looked at the site on knives and didn't see anything that bowled me over.I've had several of those knives from Michigan over the years and have seen reenactors with them although I prefer a more authentic and preferably French knife for my period and impression{French allied Mohawk} which is 17th and 18th centuries.Just my thoughts on the matter.
Tom Patton

Dale Brown said:

pathfinderifh said:

Historiclly accurate? Who knows. If someone wants to spend the time to prove these knifes inappropriate for our use, shame on them and find yourself a diferent hobby, WE don't need ya! :cursing:

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Let's not get defensive. The man asked if it was PC. Now we can't even make PC comments when asked for them?

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I must have missed that one, I agree, please let us keep it civil...

Skagun said:

Paco, I agree with Windwalker, if you like that style, that's all the justification you need and no one would belittle ya for carrying it. However, if you're interested in authenticity, I'll be happy to take the time and go out of my way to help ya identify a good piece.
Here's some from the Collector's Illustrated Encyclopedia of the American Revolution

The curly maple looking handles and the notched backs on those "Colonial trade knives" really detract from the PC aspect of trade knives. Though I do like the blade shapes.

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I agree with Skagun here especially the last paragraph although some of the blades look more like modern butcher knives.I like butcher knives from the late 19th to early 20th century or later depending on the blade that can reshaped to look earlier. Minnis {cited by me earlier} shows some very good looking knives with about 8-10" blades which run roughly between parrallel lines and can be can be reshaped to an oblate or clipped point with a little grinding on top{see Minnis,plates 3-6} for a good idea.
Tom Patton

I forgot to mention that the earlier the knife, the thinner the blade is a good rule of thumb to remember.
Tom Patton

What do you think those notches in the base of the blades were used for?
They are not functional defensive "Spanish" notches.
I don't know why a blade smith would go to the trouble of putting them in the blade just for decoration.
Thanks in advance!
be safe...
Ted

Putting notches in would only take a few minutes. As a knifemaker I have had requests from fishermen for similar notches so that they can use the back side to scale with. I am not a fisherman, so I have no opinion on this as a functional feature. You do see notches on many 19th C. trade knives, but I don't think they were common or even existant on earlier blades. If they were, I am unaware of it.

Sorry about sounding a little angry. :redface: So many times a good thing is dismissed because of a lack of evidence. Maybe I miss read the intent of the question,but is it possable that,
1.Many gunsmiths also made knifes and had the curly maple on hand for the scales?
2. None or few exsist because of being worn out or lost or still in attics and such?
3.Our creativity has to be confined to what can be documented?
That doesn't mean we can use modern materials to make somthing that "looks" PC, but based on the evidence we have of surviving artifacts,is it possable to be creative within the confines of the styles and materials commonly used to make reasonable facimilies?
I hope this doesn't sound defensive or mean spirited. The computer doesn't allow inflection.

Pathfinder