Pietta Sheriff vs Navy

I’m new to BP and am wondering what the difference is between the Sheriff and Navy model Pietta. I thought the Navy was 36cal and Sheriff was same gun but 44cal, but I saw and add for a 36cal Sheriff. So now I’m confused.

Generally speaking the term "Sheriff model", when used concerning a percussion revolver, simply means a shorter than normal (military issue or common commercial length) barrel or a barrel that has been shortened for handier use and ergonomics.

There are "Sheriff" model Colts and there are "Sheriff" model Remingtons and they come in both .44 and .36 caliber.

Most percussion revolvers had barrels around 8 inches as issued. A "sheriff's" model usually is around 4 1/2 to 5 1/2 inches.

The term "Navy" normally identifies a .36 caliber gun as in the Colt 1851 (which was only made originally in .36, the current Italian .44 repros are a "fantasy" gun). Similarly the term "Army" usually refers to a .44 caliber gun (as in the 1860 "Army").

This nomenclature goes back to the Civil War period. You will find Colt "Navies" and Remington "Navies" as well as other makes, all in .36, as that is what the Navy spec'd out in their requisitions during that period, although you will find the Army using .36 caliber guns as well and the Navy using .44 caliber guns too.

A good book like Percussion Revolvers: A Guide to Their History, Performance, and Use by Mike Cumpston and Johnny Bates will help you get the basics down. It is available on Amazon and elsewhere.

Stevey30 said:

I’m new to BP and am wondering what the difference is between the Sheriff and Navy model Pietta. I thought the Navy was 36cal and Sheriff was same gun but 44cal, but I saw and add for a 36cal Sheriff. So now I’m confused.

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In practical use a shorter barrel means a shorter loading lever which gives less mechanical advantage when forcing bullets into the chambers. For that reason a practical approach with the .44 is to the limit the size of the balls (limiting how much bigger they are than the chambers). Beveling the edges on the chambers can help as well. Also, with the 1851 frame fitted to .44 caliber you may find that there's just not quite enough room to load anything but round ball any how.



So all in all, the softest balls of barely big enough diameter are worth trying. But, you may find that a longer shear band around the ball gives better accuracy. Then again, with the shorter barrels many find that accuracy is hard to come by without more practice and load development. With .44's it seems that the shorter barrels can more so accentuate shot to shot variations due to fouling build up.

I use a 2:1 mix of veg oil and wax melted together for over ball lube. I like it because the fouling is more like soot and is softer that typical fouling and doesn't clog things up.
Ball size in 44s runs .454 or .457. In non chamfhered cylinders should be an .020-.030 ring cut when rammed. Find .380 works best in 36 cal.
Some can have undersized cylinder bore and that can affect accuracy. 36cal shod be around .365, 44cal .449. Ive opened 44 to .451 and had very good results.
Conicals are best loaded on bench loader to insure the are rammed squarely.

Ok so let me make sure I understand , my 36cal 1858 is actually a Sheriff model not a Navy model? The Navy is an 1851 in 36 cal?

36 is a Navy caliber.
44 Army caliber.
I think the Navy chose 36 because of short range use and there is more 36 balls per pound than 44.
If I remember correctly the 1858 36 is Sheriff and the 44 is a Belt pistol.
Either way both are nicely balanced.

5 1/2" barrel 44
7 3/8 " 36
8" " 44

The Colt 1848 Dragoon is referred to as the OMA (Old Model Army) .44 caliber and the cylinder is rollmarked either USMR (U. S. Mounted Rifles) or US Dragoons with the Soldier and Indian fight scene. US Army referred to it as a (saddle) holster pistol.
The Colt 1851 Navy is referred to as the OMN (Old Model Navy) .36 caliber and the cylinder portrays the 1843 Battle Of Campeche between the Texas Navy and the Mexican Navy. US Army referred to it as a belt pistol.
The Colt 1860 Army is referred to as the NMA (New Model Army) .44 caliber and the cylinder portrays the same 1843 Naval scene. US Army referred to it as a belt pistol.
The Colt 1861 Navy is referred to as the NMN (New Model Navy) .36 caliber and the cylinder portrays the same 1843 Naval scene. US Army referred to it as a belt pistol.

Reference: The Colt Model 1860 Army Revolver by Charles W. Pate (2018) pp 12-21, 69-70.

Regards,

Jim

Stevey30 said:

Ok so let me make sure I understand , my 36cal 1858 is actually a Sheriff model not a Navy model? The Navy is an 1851 in 36 cal?

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If it is in the standard barrel length (7-8") it is a Remington "Navy" (Navy denoting .36 caliber) "Navy" was a period term, but it did not denote a particular make or model, only .36 caliber

I have a pair of .36 Remingtons in standard barrel length and they are "Navies" but they are not "sheriff" models.

If it has a significantly shorter barrel 5/1/2 or less it is a "Navy, "Sheriff" model.

The sheriff" model thing is not a proper period model name, and is a modern invention to describe a shortened military style pistol shortened for law enforcement, concealment, etc. use.

Different modern manufacturers and vendors will use the terms "Sheriff", "Belt" pistol in various ways to describe their product, in tandem with the terms "Army" and "Navy".

One of our members here, Mike Bellevue (duelist1954) actually was on the ground floor of "inventing" the current "sheriff" model. He made one up years ago and their popularity grew. Although there is no doubt but which some soldier,s lawmen civilians, cowboys, etc, shortened their percussion pistols for easier handling "back in the day".

These may help you get an idea of what the nomenclatures are.

Ok so mine is a Navy since it has about A 6 3/8” barrel. Thanks everyone for clearing that up for me.

Stevey30 said:

Ok so let me make sure I understand , my 36cal 1858 is actually a Sheriff model not a Navy model? The Navy is an 1851 in 36 cal?

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Stevey30 said:

Ok so mine is a Navy since it has about A 6 3/8” barrel. Thanks everyone for clearing that up for me.

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I still think you are a bit confused. From your posts I believe you have a Pietta "1858" (which is a misnomer) Remington with a short 6-3/8" barrel. Original Remington revolvers that your Pietta is patterned after were produced as the 1863 Remington New Model Army .44 and the 1863 Remington New Model Navy .36. Both had 7.5"-8" barrels. Colt produced the 1851 Navy .36 and the 1860 Army .44, which are completely different from the Remington guns.

I have nine Pietta 1851 Navy .36 "type" revolvers (most of which are Confederate mock-ups, but I won't get into those now so as to avoid further confusion).

Pietta 1851 Navy .36 revolvers with 7.5" barrels:



Regards,

Jim

Remington = Top strap

Colt = open top or NO top strap

Sherriff model means fantasy gun or cut down barrel never made by the manufacturer.

All made in .36 cal or .44 cal

nhmoose said:

cut down barrel never made by the manufacturer.

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Except upon special order by Colt with the 1851 Navy. There are several known original examples that are documented.

Regards,

Jim

Stevey30 said:

Ok so mine is a Navy since it has about A 6 3/8” barrel. Thanks everyone for clearing that up for me.

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Where are you measuring from there Stevey?
The front of the cylinder or the front of the frame?

The Remington Army (.44) had an 8" barrel. The Remington Navy (.36) had a 7 3/8" barrel. (There was never a .44 Remington Navy.)

Remington reproductions of either caliber with barrels of 5 1/2" or shorter are called "sheriff" models which is a modern marketing term.

Colt never made a .44 Navy (1851 style barrel), they are a fantasy gun. Colt Navys are .36 and Colt Armies are .44. Either a .36 or .44 Colt "Navy" or a .44 Colt Army with a 5 1/2" or shorter barrel are called "sheriff" models by the current manufacturers.

As sourdough says above special order only on Colt short barrels. I'm not aware of any Remingtons with shorter than standard barrels from the factory but it could have happened.

I measured front of barrel to just in front of cylinder. 36 cal is on top, bottom is 8” 44cal, both Pietta

Nice .36!

Thank NKBJ, it’s an older Pietta from the 70’s, shoots great. The 44 I just bought Friday but haven’t shot it yet. I like the feel of the 36, balances better.

What about pocket Police and Navy in 5 shot 35cal?

"Pocket", "Police", "Sheriff", Dragoon. All just advertising descriptors for manufacturers and vendors of one period or another.

"Navy", "Army" = historic descriptor of caliber.

Colt, Remington, Rogers and Spencer, Spiller and Burr, etc. = original manufacturers

Pietta, Uberti, ASM ASP, Palmetto, Pedersoli, etc. = reproduction manufacturers

1848, 1851, 1862, 1863, 1858, 1860 etc.= models.