what constitutes a pc smoothbore?

well thats cool with me.i dont think or plan to be doing any events besides go to them.i dont know what gun im gonna get i keep changein my mind lol :v

Maybe I can offer you guys another peice to this puzzle. In Hanson's Trade Gun Sketchbook there is a gun by Sandwell marked 1777 on the lock. All the hardware looks just like the Later NW trade gun hardware except for the cupped bow and round finials on the TG. Then there's the Montreal traders gun marked 1775 on pg.58 in Hanson's The Northwest Gun. This gun also has the same hardware as the "77 Sandwell. Then there's the gun in the John Johnston Farm Museum at Piqua, Ohio that is marked Wheeler on the lock and has all the furniture you would expect on a post 1800 NW gun except the stock still has the architecture of the earlier "type G" i.e. frenchified drop to the buttstock. As does the Sandwell and the Montreal gun. Then there is the gun on pg. 103 of "Where Two Worlds Meet" by Robert Wheeler. Supposedly a 1800 gun. This gun still has the low comb rounding off into the wrist instead of the higher square comb of the later guns and also a slight curve to the bottom of the buttstock.(Not as drastic as the 3 guns mentioned earlier. My theory is that after the F&I War when there was no more competition between the French and the English and the English had the monopoly on the trade, the quality of the Trade gun degraded fast and the french influence on stock style dwindled. Eventually evolving by 1780 into the gun we now know as the NW gun. I think this transition from the Type G hardware and silhouette to the later triangular British stock and NW gun hardware (flat sheet brass nailed on w/cut nails and big two finger bow of flat strap iron etc.) happened by 1780 or so. Still, the NW gun was to late for the F&I war or the Rev. War. I think the 1761 reference to the NW gun is talking about these guns that still had the french buttstock and the flat brass buttplate and cupped bow hardware like the Sandwell and the Montreal gun. Or possibly the gun pictured in "Battle Weapons of the Revolution" pg.205 that has a mix of furniture i.e. acorn finial TG with the rest of the furniture being classic NW gun. Then there is the NW gun shown in one of the accoutrements books by Johnson but I don't remember the Volume #. Anyway, what do you guys think about these guns I have mentioned in the time table of the evolution of the NW gun? :hatsoff:
Don

I think you are probably right on that Mike, there is written documentation that in the first half of the 18th century that the English factors in the north wanted guns like those the French supply, and guns with large trigger guards,(1740} and a NW gun was a known type of gun by 1761. we can only speculate on what they may have looked like I suspect they were like the Carolina guns with the modifications stated above to suit the HBC factors clients, and from there evolved into the late 18th NW gun we see today there being a difference like between an Early lancaster circa 1770 and a 1830 Lancaster? I do not think NorthStarr west has what would be considered the Carolina gun I think the stock shape at the but is wrong, I think their Early English is more of a French influenced English type (like the Wilson gun)which may be close to what they looked like at one period in the evolutionary process.

Recycle:

sell my children? how dare you!!

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I can relate to that! I couldn't sell any of my girls either and I have about the same number as you do listed on my website. :grin:

good point money aint a issue im just cheep cheep and most those customs I seen are 3grand on up

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Not for nothing, but depending on how early you want to go and what type of smoothbore you want, there are some custom guns which do run within your price range and are historically accurate. Leonard Day makes some really nice 16th and 17th Century arms that are accurate and well worth the money. IMO

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Well Don/Mike I think we have it figured out, now if the vendors and reenacting community will just get on board the whole PC pre rev-war NW gun issue is a piece of cake (VBG)

Well fellas, that was pretty near painless :bow: No bloodshed on this subject at all before we got it all wrapped up. What shall we solve next, world peace? :v :haha:

Why not, we could try. :v
Don

where can Leonard Day's rifles be found?
revalotionary era is what im looking for

"What shall we solve next, world peace"

this last one was a little lifeless, how about early southern iron mounted rifles, that always stirs the pot a bit?????

tg said:

"What shall we solve next, how about early southern iron mounted rifles, that always stirs the pot a bit?????

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Great :winking: , you guys can do just that in the flintlock or percussion section... :haha:

Good thing this is the smoothbore section, whew, that was a close one... :haha:

I have a southern mountain SMOOTHIE in .50 cal. Will that keep it going here? :blah:

Pathfinder ps.,it's iron mounted

Uh oooh! :shocked2:

That's nothin, I drink strawberry smoothies every day. :blah:

Recycle:

recycle said:

where can Leonard Day's rifles be found?
revalotionary era is what im looking for

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I know one fellow I met at Dixon's this past year was selling his arms. I forgot his name, but he had a gorgeous Dutch Doglock smoothbore for $825.

You can contact Leonard Day directly and ask what you are looking for. He can help you out. He has no E-Mail but you can contact him at

Leonard Day
3 Kings Highway
Westhampton, MA 01027
413-527-9627

Hope this helps.

Slowmatch Forever!
Teleoceras

Mike Brooks said:

Well fellas, that was pretty near painless :bow: No bloodshed on this subject at all before we got it all wrapped up. What shall we solve next, world peace? :v :haha:

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Yeah, I'm for whirled peas. :haha:

Cruzatte

i think we can get them to come around on this.after all.the people on this forum make up half of the muzzle loading community.

thank you ill give him a shout much obliged :grin: :grin:

Recycle:

thank you ill give him a shout much obliged :grin: :grin:

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Good luck! Please let us know if you order something.

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Teleoceras

Leonard's shop number is 413-527-0184.

thank you all!! I will give him a call wonder if he has any guns ready to go. One issue that turned me off on custom was a year wait or more.
desperately i wanted a 4bore wall gun from the rifle shop but 2 years is out of the question.
i watch the classifieds here keepig a keen eye on what you guys advertise